[Heather Bayer]

This is the Vacation Rental Success Podcast keeping you up-to-date with news, views, information and resources on this rapidly changing short-term rental business. I'm your host, Heather Bayer, and with 25 years of experience in this industry, I'm making sure you know what's hot, what's not, what's new and what will help make your business a success. 

‍

Well, hello and welcome to another episode of the Vacation Rental Success Podcast, this is your host, Heather Bayer, and as ever, I'm super delighted to be back with you once again. Well, if you're listening to this on the day of publication, it's just a few days before the VRNation Conference in Austin, and I'm super excited. Can't wait to kick off my conferences, and I know that a few people have already been to events so far this year, but this will be my first of 2025. And I am really looking forward to catching up with people that I haven't seen for such a long time. And I really like the idea of this conference. The theme is 'In With the Bold, Out With the Old', or it could be out with the old, in with the bold. I don't know. It's one way or the other. I will put a link to it on the Show Notes, just in case you want to get a last minute ticket and come along and see what is going to be quite a unique conference. I'm quite sure. And one of the people I'm going to see that weekend is my guest on the show today. 

‍

So have you ever found yourself in a position of leadership? And I'm sure a lot of you listening are in positions of leadership, but you've thought, wait, however, did I end up here? This is not what I planned. And you're not alone. Most short-term rental managers don't start out with a team. I've interviewed so many property managers on this show over the years. And when I asked them that question, how did you get into this business? Usually they start with, oh, I had a property of my own, or my parents were running a short-term rental, or running a bed and breakfast, or running a small hotel and so I got into hospitality like that. And you just tend to start out solo, cleaning properties, you're handling the guests, you're answering the phone, doing it all yourself. And then all of a sudden you're hiring a cleaner, then there's a maintenance person, then there's a virtual assistant and all of a sudden before you know it, you're the boss. But no one handed you a leadership manual.

‍

And I know this story all too well, because that story was mine. For years, I was a solo entrepreneur. It was just me doing all the things consultancy wise. I managed my own day, managed my own schedule. Everything was done the way I wanted it. But that changed when I co-founded CottageLink Rental Management. Suddenly we had a business that was growing and we bought on our first employee who was a bookkeeper and office manager. And she'd spent 17 years at the same bank before joining us. But she'd never led a team before and she was looking to me for guidance, because we wanted her to come in and eventually be, as I said, office manager, take over the team. But the trouble was, I had no idea how to be a leader either. And then came more staff and I had to become a supervisor, an HR manager, a coach. And quite honestly, it did not come naturally to me. I struggled with that transition.

‍

And I know so many of you are in that same place. That's why I'm so excited to share this episode with Ali Cammelletti. She is a leadership coach and the founder of Spark Your Mindset. And if you've ever been to a conference and been to one of Ali's sessions, you will have been inspired by her. She just has that aura that inspires people to follow her. She's a natural leader. She's spent two decades helping hospitality professionals grow into confident and effective leaders, even when they started out with zero experience. 

‍

So in this episode, we're going to dig into what leadership really looks like when you didn't plan for it. We're going to talk about mindset, common missteps, emotional intelligence, and how to start showing up with more confidence, even when you're still figuring it all out. So whether you're managing one assistant or a whole team, you're going to get practical tools and insights and a whole lot of reassurance in this episode. So without further ado, let's go straight on over to my conversation with Ali Cammelletti. 

‍

Well, I'm so excited to have with me today Ali Cammelletti from Spark Your Mindset. As I said in the introduction, if you've ever been to a conference and sat in on one of Ali's sessions, you will have come away completely inspired and ready to go and lead, I know I was Ali, when I saw you speak in Boise. I just dropped in because you were there and I knew you and I thought I'll drop in and see what Ali has to say. And I sat there for the entire session, which is really unusual for me, but it was and I came away inspired. So that's my introduction to you. Thank you so much for joining me.

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

Thank you, Heather. I am so excited about everything that you're offering our industry when it comes to leadership. Thank you.

‍

[Heather Bayer]

Well, that's so nice of you, but I'm not sure how much I'm offering to leadership because, as I said, we were talking before, I think I was a really rubbish leader when I was CEO of my own company. And, you know, I did find it far easier to hire a general manager and have her do the leadership. But I think we'll be talking about those things as we go through this conversation because I've titled this episode 'Are You Born to be a Leader?' And I think that's not a new expression. It's been out there for a long time.

‍

But before we start, can you give everybody a little bit of background to you and how you got to be doing what you are doing today?

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

Yeah, so I have 30 plus years in hospitality and I started out young in leadership positions. I was in San Francisco. Well, actually, my first position, I was in Bend and I led a snack shop and I learned how to motivate the beverage cart girls by how much sales they made. And I love this story because it's so funny. Way back then, I didn't know what I was doing. Are you kidding me? I was not even 20 at the time. And the gentleman said, Ali, what in the world? How have you exceeded our sales in the snack shop? And I said, oh, well, I motivated them by saying they got to pick their schedule based on their sales. And it went through the roof, because if you know a beverage cart on a golf course, you know that you probably maybe ran across somebody that's sleeping in the trees. And the ones that were hungry for it... Oh, yeah. Oh, I saw it all. And the ones that were hungry for it. They were the ones making the rounds, because you could make the rounds. 

‍

So, yeah, I started off young in leadership positions and I'd say my first business was event planning that I started back in 2000. And I had that company for nine years while I was teaching on the side at our local community college. I was not a great leader at that time. I wasn't. And I look back on it now and I'm like, Oh, I've grown so much. I wish I would have known then right what I know now. And then I ended up getting into the industry of vacation rentals when I went and worked for Navis and I was advising on really how to drive revenue with that platform. And then after that, I left and I started the company I have now. It was originally Cammelletti Consulting, and then I rebranded during COVID to Spark Your Mindset, because at first I was like, I'm not sure what I'm going to be doing, but I really started off in sales and guest service. I guess service was always really my solid background and then I didn't really realize I was doing sales the whole time, too. And then it organically shifted as I just really wanted to influence leaders.

‍

And I had somebody come up to me after a conference. She said, I don't want you training my staff. I want you to train me. And I was like, Oh OK. And then I got some certifications and kept on educating myself and it's evolved. And I just love it.

‍

[Heather Bayer]

I love that when you say somebody said, I don't want you to train my staff, I want you to train me. And I know we've been talking a little bit before we started about dogs, but it takes me back to taking my dog to a dog trainer and getting in the room and thinking, OK, I'm going to come out of here with this beautifully trained dog. And she spent the first 40 minutes talking to me and she said, you know, it's you that needs training, not this dog. And not that that sounds dreadful because it sounds like I'm equating dog training to working with people, but it's a similar principle. It's the person who is doing the leading that needs the training.

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

‍

[Heather Bayer]

So many of our listeners, and I know this because I've spoken to so many property managers and solopreneurs over the years, and they started out on their own. You know, they were cleaning toilets one day, they were managing teams the next. And certainly some of them that grew really, really fast. And most people come in without really thinking about the idea of leadership, what it means. So when they get their first team member, they're not playing by any rules or any script there. They're just playing it as they see fit, maybe as they've been led in the past, which may have been good, may have not been so good. 

‍

But in your experience, so what's the first mindset shift that someone has to make when they realize, hey, I'm now a leader of people.

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

People may never do it as good as you. That's what I hear the most is their disappointment. They want those employees to be doing it better than they were doing. And they want them to start off that way.

‍

[Heather Bayer]

Yeah. And, you know, that reminds me that as entrepreneurs, we tend to be strategic thinkers and we come up with masses of ideas and you hire the first person. You think, OK, I'm going to give you all these tasks but I want you to come up with some ideas as well. And if you've hired the correct people, they probably should be good at what you've hired them to do, which may not be in strategic planning, right? Yeah.

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

And then it's delegating, being comfortable delegating, because I hear a lot of, Well, they can't do it as good as me. I can do it faster. I'm like, yeah, but think it's a long game here. You can do it faster at that moment, but over a year's time, how much time are you soaking up by you continuing to do it and not allowing them to do it. Give them the tools, of course, first on how to do it, then allow them to do it and then go back and check in with them and see how they did it. And give advice so that, yeah, they can grow and do it as good as you eventually.

‍

[Heather Bayer]

So is there a time to hire somebody? Because often we hire at that point where we're desperate. You know, I've got to take somebody on because I can't do it all myself anymore. And then you take someone on and then you feel that you don't have the time to give them to tell them exactly what you want. So how do you deal with that?

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

Oh, I just had this conversation yesterday. And what I recommend, because in vacation rentals, what we find is there can be those growing pains and you're like, I don't know if I have the money for the payroll, but I'm stretched so thin. I can't do this anymore. Right? And so what we were talking about in that company's situation was the position of a salesperson. Right? They have a guest service person that's remote, but an onsite salesperson. Now, they're coming into summer. They're primarily winter client. Right? But what we talked about is a salesperson that's onsite. You can potentially cross train them to help with inspections as needed in the summer at times.

‍

And so learning how to be strategic that way in your hiring. And then I think that was the other thing is I'm talking to this leader. He wanted to have it all lined out for this person he was training. I said, let them help you. You have the outline, but they're going to learn and they're going to learn what they wish they would have known during that training. Have them help you with the training and don't feel like you have to know all the answers and put it all on you.

‍

[Heather Bayer]

Yeah, that is so important. So let's go back to leadership in the biggest terms. Can it be learned or are some people born to lead? And I know you do.... We do all the psychometric testing, the predictive index, the culture index, the Myers-Briggs, whatever is the going thing, which might say, Hey, you are a leader. But what if it says, No, you were not, you're not designated via this psychometric results to be a leader. What happens then?

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

I'm an optimist. I believe that anyone can learn to lead if they really want to. Do I think that some are naturally born leaders? Yes. Do I think they still have areas of opportunity?

‍

[Heather Bayer]

Yes.

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

Because I've worked with them, but I've worked with people that are like, I'm not really a leader. You know, I don't know how and has had huge growth in the time that I've worked with them. It goes back to will.

‍

Now, if I'm working with a leader that when we talk about ideas and all they give me are excuses, I would call that person maybe more of a follower than a leader, and I've encountered that. And I've had to have that conversation of, I know you have this person in a leadership position, yet I've worked with them for a while now and I continue to see that those skills aren't there and the will isn't there. So I recommend repositioning them in your company. Yeah.

‍

[Heather Bayer]

But what if that's you? What if that's you that doesn't really have the will in this? I guess this was me.

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

I believe that those people when they're in the right seat will eventually see, Oh, this is so much better. I hated what I was doing and I had no idea how much I hated it.

‍

[Heather Bayer]

Yeah. I talk to Steve Trover quite a lot about this, you know, getting the right person in the right seat. And I know from my own experience that I was just not cut out to be a leader. I have lots of ideas. I'm a dreamer, but not a leader. So what I did was hire somebody else to come in and cover that level of management that just wasn't in my wheelhouse. And it left me free to have the ideas which I could then filter down to her, who then delegated them out to others. And I know that's to a degree you've got to have that sort of money when you're going to hire somebody at that level. But you can do it fractionally. You don't have to have somebody that's full time. 

‍

So can you give me some examples of maybe somebody who you've worked with and... obviously no names, but somebody who has, when you started with them, they weren't really leadership material, as if they were applying for a job, perhaps they wouldn't be leadership material. But they're in this role as the CEO of a company and you're helping them to grow their leadership skills. So I'd love to hear how this has worked.

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

Yeah. I think of somebody specifically that was an office manager that ended up getting promoted into a general manager during the time that I was working with her. And when we were working together, she just hadn't been in those positions yet. And she was now a manager. But what I feel like the majority of people that are kind of trying to make that shift, something's getting in their way. Right?

‍

And I have this diagram of the shift that you go from independent to interdependence. Right? And it starts off further down the line. But that's that pain period that so many leaders struggle with because they're independent. They know how to do the things. They're great at what they do. They've gotten accolades. That's how they get promoted. But then now how do you find the love for nurturing others and growing others that are under you and walk by their side to help them do the tasks at hand without you doing it all still. And that's the shift. And I asked her one time, I said, what do you think made that shift? And she said, it was actually my son. And he said, and I cannot remember the exact quote, but she basically alluded to him saying that you can't do it all for me, mom. Let go. Right?

‍

And all that's out there right now with Mel Robbins. Right? Let Them [The Let Them Theory].

‍

Well, right. That's a little bit different. But there are some connections here of how do we then get excited about other people's growth and not be so focused on how we look as leaders. And that's what I feel really gets in the way of true leadership. And sometimes what those obstacles can be are insecurity, shame. And so how do you bridge that place to go into curiosity and love? You can narrow it down to something very simple. Ask questions. Stop trying to show you have all the answers. Ask questions. Leave them there. Get them to come up with the answers. They will grow that way and learn.

‍

[Heather Bayer]

Yeah, that is. I really like that. But how do you begin to do that? You know, someone who's suddenly responsible for a team like this person, you've got to start feeling out of your depth. Where do they begin? What's that first step that takes them into this shift?

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

Self-awareness. Self-awareness, I might not know what I'm doing. And I do believe that self-awareness is the key. And that's that curiosity piece of how can I do this better? How can I grow this team to be the team I want them to be? And being humble enough to seek outside resources.

‍

Like you said, you sought outside resources when you're like, Oh boy, this might not be my strength. You went and got those. But that's what gets in the people's ways if they are not willing to. And they're like, No, I know all the answers, they just need to do what I say. I run into that a lot where they're trying to push instead of, let's open those hands and allow and guide instead of push. It's the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again. Come on.

‍

[Heather Bayer]

Yeah, expecting those same results. So, okay, self-awareness. Now, that's not always easy because that requires a certain amount of introspection. And perhaps you get to a point where you just don't want to go any further with that introspection because you don't like what you see. And that's a big aspect of self-awareness, isn't it? You've got to be open to what comes out of that journey.

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

I have often had owners say, I want you to work with Ali. Sometimes it's successful and sometimes it's not. Sometimes it takes time. I've watched a little bit of everything, really. I have. And it just depends. Some of them just..., they right off the bat make those shifts and changes. And I've asked, what do you think created you to be able to do that? And they're like, I was ready. I was ready for this. I saw when he gave me the positive intelligence test and I had, I kind of caught the happiness test, a 30% the rest of the time I was acting within my saboteurs. And that told me I need to make some changes. And so again, it's self-awareness. It's being ready and having that will. And really wanting it.

‍

[Heather Bayer]

So let's come onto this testing. You talked about positive intelligence. What does that show? And are these tests really worthwhile? And while we're at it, a lot of these tests you can only do through certified practitioners, and there's a gazillion of them online. So let me ask you that question. Could somebody just go online? There's a pretty good Myers-Briggs test out there now. It used to be called the Keirsey Temperament Sorter years ago. He came out with something very similar to Myers-Briggs. But the Myers-Briggs site now itself has a really good free test. I mean, it's almost the full test, but you don't get the full post-test analysis. 

‍

So I want to know from you now, how important is that? Is it worthwhile somebody doing that type of test? Just to get a little bit more self-awareness, which is probably for them a sort of corroboration of what they already know. But it's always useful to see.

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

I've taken the majority of the tests out there. And I use different testing for different things, right? Like I'll use the DiSC Sales Test is my favorite for sales techniques and really being able to fine tune different sales behavior styles.

‍

Now, for me, when I am coaching leadership and even sometimes I will do this with sales people, depending, I like the positive intelligence. It's Shirzad Chamine, he is a certified coach. And it really speaks to what I am looking for. And it's those like what's getting in your way, saboteurs. And it lists your saboteurs, right? So there's... stickler is probably one of the more common, which is basically a perfectionist. And then you have the hypervigilant, which is anxious, which I see that a lot. Anxious is usually up there pretty high. Hyper-rational, they're just very focused on, and have a hard time of, seeing the full picture. Controller, avoider, there are many to go through, but I feel it allows them to see what's getting in their way.

‍

And then we go back to name it to tame it. It goes as deep as, this is what probably happened in your childhood to create this, right? And I tell you, everybody I've worked with, they're like, how in the heck... this test is right on, exactly right on.

‍

And so it allows me to get in deep with them. And then we can go into, okay, if you're trying to delegate, what's getting in the way? Is it this perfectionist saboteur that's in your way right now? Because you don't feel like they're going to do as good a job as you? I know that feeling. You know, pleaser, perfectionist, those are the most common in hospitality, right? We like to serve, hyper-achiever is usually up there as well. And so how can we all have saboteurs, but how can we utilize those for our strengths? But don't let them take us down.

‍

[Heather Bayer]

Can you give us an example of that? Give me an example of a saboteur from your experience.

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

And the example of the saboteur, let's do a stickler, right? So when we think about the stickler and the perfectionist, are you going back? And every time somebody does something, you're correcting it and you are being really forthright in your correcting. Or are you able to relax a little bit and give them their positives? You're doing awesome at this. This is one little area I'd like for you to focus on, right? Or do you go straight in with this, this, this, this, and this is wrong? Because I had a leader come to me and she's like, they won't do anything without coming and asking me. She had a high stickler and I said, well, is it possible they feel like they're not going to do it right? And so that's why they keep coming to you. And she had that moment of, Do you think that I am creating this? I'm like, I don't know. Do you? 

‍

You know, like, let's investigate this, because I never want to say, yeah, I do. But something to pay attention to, like give them that self-awareness.

‍

Now, that person I did not continue working with, and I recently heard she has left the position, and that was the exact reasoning, was that this team never felt they could live up to this person's expectations. And so they didn't feel good about coming to work, or what they were doing. They didn't feel valued.

‍

[Heather Bayer]

So tell me, do you ever walk into a company and you just get the feeling as you walk in that there is something a little bit off, that there's clearly... For those of you who are not watching the video of this, Ali is definitely nodding here.

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

I'll never forget that. I was working for Navis at the time and we'd go on site and we'd train on software. And it had been a long day. We had traveled..., nothing against Tennessee, I love Tennessee, right? But we walk into the front desk. Oh, I bet you it had to be 10:30 at night. It was dark and I traveled from Oregon. And the guy was like, Oh yeah, you Navis folks. We hate you already. And I was like, Oh Wow. I'm like, Okay, I need to sleep. 

‍

And the next day I could feel the eggshells. And at the end of that implementation, the owner sat me down. She goes, I want to know what you think of our company, Ali. I'm like, okay. So they're going to be great at compliance. Like they're going to do all the things and your data in that sense is going to look really clean. She goes, what's the but? I said, I don't think your conversion is going to go up. And conversion is like how many sales versus leads. And she said, why not? And I said, they're afraid of you. You can feel it. And she said, well, I've had managers that I have great relationships with. I said, absolutely. I'm talking about your frontline people. She goes, what do I do? And I tell you, I left that. I was like, Oh, God, I said what I needed to say, but I was scared. I wasn't sure I was going to get out of there Okay.

‍

But, you know, sometimes you have to have the hard conversations. She asked and she said, what do I do? I said, you find somebody that can buffer that, that works with you, understands your level of detail that you want your company, but yet can nurture that. Those team members where they feel excited about what they're doing and they want to make more sales.

‍

[Heather Bayer]

Yeah, I'm doing a little bit of self-awareness at the moment. I think probably if I did the positive intelligence test, I would come out as somewhere between a stickler and a perfectionist. Because, you know, I think that was perhaps the nature of my company to a degree. And maybe I'm probably being really, really hard on myself here. But when Christina came in, and we definitely hired the right person for the right seat, because she was the perfect person to manage absolutely everybody, whether it was guests or owners or the team or other managers. And she was just the, just the right person. She had all those right things. I hope you're listening, Christina. Because she's still with the property management company that I sold three years ago. And I'm sure she is still doing exactly the same wonderful work because, you know, yeah, I had the self-awareness to say that this leadership thing was not great for me.

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

Yeah, and I speak from experience because I definitely have perfectionist tendencies and I see when I'm under stress they come out.

‍

[Heather Bayer]

Mm-hmm. So how, tell us how they come out when you're under stress.

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

Oh, I try to make everything perfect in other ways if there's things that I can't control in my life.

‍

[Heather Bayer]

Mm-hmm.

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

My yard might look really good. The house might be really clean. I try to control the things that I can when other things feel out of control.

‍

[Heather Bayer]

Yes, yes, I recognize that too, but I recognize that. 

‍

Let's talk about remote workers and how you lead remote workers because, you know, again, I'm coming back to my own experiences. I've had so many virtual assistants over the years. I've got one... Hana has been with us for 12 years now. She's in the Philippines. I've never met her. We can go weeks and weeks and weeks without actually having a face-to-face. And I realize that, you know, days will go past and sometimes Mike will say to me, so what's Hana doing? I said, I have no clue. You know, I don't know. She's probably taking a few days off because I've given her nothing to do.

‍

So that relationship is a very different one, but it's a special one because so many people now are using remote assistants. And is there a special way of leading them?

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

Yeah, you know, I have someone that works with me on my podcast, Dolan, and he's in Bangladesh. And lovely gentlemen, lovely gentlemen. And we decided at first what we would do is, I would outline.. and I have a timeline of all of my podcast responsibilities, who's in charge of them and what date they're supposed to be done. And so we're able to do that because of the, you know, he's kind of sleeping right when I'm awake type of thing. And so that's how I do it with him. I think what happens is people get really uncomfortable often I see in vacation rentals when they don't know what they're doing.

‍

And it's hard for them, right? Especially if they want to be able to see everything they're doing. And it's important to keep tabs, but I always recommend you check in with them every day virtually in some way and face-to-face on video at least once a week.

‍

And then in the situation where there's sales team, because this is an area that I really dive into, I recommend that you score calls. And you look at all of those metrics of handle times and response times, right? Because you set guidelines on what your expectations are of a company with those guidelines. And you hold them accountable. And boy, I tell you what, one of the biggest areas in vacation rentals I see that gets missed is how to hold people accountable. How to hold people accountable in a leadership way that makes them feel valued and get stuff done.

‍

[Heather Bayer]

So give me some ideas of how to hold them accountable. I mean, you said scoring, something that's measurable, maybe some KPIs, but how do you set them up? And of course, then it gets into what happens when they don't meet those targets.

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

What we allow, we encourage. So if they don't meet the targets and you don't do anything about it, why should they meet the targets? Yeah. Right. And eventually sometimes you find it's not a good fit. Like I had this team that for sales that I was coaching and they were remote and they did not show to be motivated by incentives at all.

‍

And as Michelle Markey [Wood] will say, if you are not motivated by money, you are not a salesperson. And yeah, I mean, that does come into play. And so you need to hold them accountable by setting the expectations, checking in to make sure do they need any support with those different pieces, like listening to their calls, coaching them on what they could be doing differently, giving them resources and educating them on how to get to those marks. And sometimes you find it's not a good fit and knowing when it's not a good fit to be okay with, like, I don't think it's a good fit.

‍

[Heather Bayer]

Yeah. It just, while you're talking, it just sort of brings to mind that this leadership thing, it's complex. It's time consuming and it can be stressful. So how do you separate the leadership out from all the other things you have to do? Like for me, it's like having ideas. I need time for the ideas. But how do you carve out the time to be a good leader?

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

Well, some leaders literally schedule that time. Right? You schedule your one-on-one meetings, you schedule those coaching meetings, you do time blocking. I'm a big fan of time blocking. My calendar, it is color coded because I want balance in my week, right? With my exercise, my self-care, my prep time, my face time with people.

‍

And then I'm raising a seven and a half year old right now as well. And so I really have to be diligent with my time. But I allow that time.

‍

I do a lot of audio books. I feel grateful that my podcast gives me that education. I'm constantly educating myself and listening to different types of leadership.

‍

So I say time block it. Yeah. I'm a time blocker. Not everybody's a time blocker. But to be really successful, I feel like that is a key piece with the leaders that I've worked with.

‍

[Heather Bayer]

Yeah. I like that idea. You talked about audio and books and things. Do you have any specific books that you'd recommend that people read or listen to?

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

Yeah. So this month, because I do a different topic every month of my podcast, business ethics and Christian Muntean, he wrote a book called Train to Lead. And I just really enjoyed his leadership style and the way he writes and his message. It just resonated across the board for me. So I would recommend that one right now for personal development. 

‍

Maybe somebody that might be struggling with perfectionism. I'd say Mel Robbins - Let Them [The Let Them Theory] is a great book to really create some self-awareness. Before I read it, I thought I was like, yeah, I understand the concept. I get boundaries. I understand all of this and coveting my time so that I have the right people I'm surrounding myself with. But I found myself, when I was listening to that book, really replaying a lot of situations. And it took my understanding of some of those concepts to a deeper level.

‍

[Heather Bayer]

Yeah, I'm halfway through listening to it at the moment. And I'm getting some of those AHA moments. Yes.

‍

I will, of course, put links to these books on the Show Notes.

‍

What about, you know, are there any audios or podcasts that you'd recommend to people to listen to regularly, maybe?

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

Regularly, it depends on what you're looking for, right? I tend to often seek out spiritual guidance. And I really like Joe Dispenza and his message. Yeah, I do a lot of his reels and listen to that. And I can just listen to him over and over and over again, right?

‍

[Heather Bayer]

His meditations are good, too. I listen to his meditations. They're very good.

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

His meditations are great. And so what I really recently found is this whole concept. And I'm like, this is relatable to the majority of the influences out there, right?

‍

And what they talk about is, are we living in shame and fear, or are we living in curiosity and love? And how do we focus on that every day? So I would say Joe Dispenza is a big one of mine. I'm constantly looking at audio books for new information. Those are my most recent.

[Heather Bayer]

Oh, that's great. They will go into the Show Notes. 

‍

I know we've got the Women's Conference coming up in August, and I'm hoping that in the personal development track, we'll have something that really sort of draws out the best of the best in the personal development type of reading and audio books.

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

I will also add Cy Wakeman. And I had recommended her to Amy Hinote at one point. Cy Wakeman is a leadership coach and she has a podcast and she does public speaking. But her content is so good, and it's so dynamic. She comes from an HR background. So Cy Wakeman, that's C-Y Wakeman.

‍

[Heather Bayer]

Right. That will also go in the Show Notes. 

‍

So I don't want to finish here before talking about emotional intelligence because you hear about it a lot. So I'm going to ask you to encapsulate what emotional intelligence is in a minute.

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

In a minute? What does it mean?

‍

[Heather Bayer]

What does it mean to you?

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

To me, it's self-awareness.

‍

[Heather Bayer]

That is the self-awareness part. OK.

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

It's self-awareness. Like, are you emotionally intelligent enough to reflect on different situations, assess them and not to get me wrong, because this can be a form of anxiousness, right? Not the like drilling over and over again of everything I did wrong and going into fear and shame, but going into curiosity.

‍

Did I handle that conversation correctly? Is there opportunity? What else could I have said? Do I feel that person walked away with the support they needed? 

‍

My daughter's adopted and we're in it right now with the adoption and I'm having a lot of these conversations with her. And so I am reflecting a lot on that. And that is the emotional intelligence piece of being able to look at myself and say, Am I handling that conversation correctly? Is that the best message for her, for her well-being and growth? And if I'm feeling like I don't have these answers, getting the resources.

‍

And right now I'm part of an adoption group through our agency, because at her age, it's coming up, right? She's asking questions and it's all coming up. So that's what I would say emotional intelligence is.

‍

The minute if somebody, if something doesn't go the way you want it to go and you get defensive and start projecting like, Wow, it's their fault, they're this and they're that. It's time to look at yourself.

‍

[Heather Bayer]

Yeah, I love it. You just put it so simply with fear and shame on the one side and curiosity and love on the other. So I think we've all been in that situation where we've had an encounter with somebody, whether it's in a leadership role, or in any other role, and you've come away from it and thought, Oh God, that really did not go well.

‍

But to take it through the emotional intelligence route and ask the questions, so why didn't it go well? Was it something that I could have done differently? Not going into the blame game, but simply saying, you know, was it something I could have done differently? Could I have driven that conversation in a different way? So it's a reflection exercise rather than a blame exercise. And I think you put that so neatly and succinctly. So thank you for that. That was great. 

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

And can I add on that it's okay to go back to that person and say, Hey, can we revisit that conversation? I'm not sure I handled that the way I wanted to.

‍

That is beautiful. So much beauty can come out of that and that can create deeper relationships when you're able to do that.

‍

[Heather Bayer]

Yeah, exactly. I love that, because that's an acceptance, that's an acceptance all round that things didn't go well and no one was to blame, but we can try it in a different way. 

‍

Ali, this is such wonderful stuff. So if a listener listens to this, but they're still feeling a bit overwhelmed about their new role, maybe in leadership, what is one action that they could take tomorrow to step into their leadership role and get it off on a better course?

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

Well, they can always reach out and I will give anybody a free 30-minutes to brainstorm on what's going on and give them advice. But I would say one thing is, take the positive intelligence test, read through that, be self aware of what might be getting in your way, because sometimes it's hard to know how other people are perceiving us that we don't even realize.

‍

[Heather Bayer]

So can they do the positive intelligence test online?

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

Yeah, for free.

‍

[Heather Bayer]

Excellent.

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

So intelligence. Yep.

‍

[Heather Bayer]

Yeah. Okay, we'll put that in the Show Notes as well. So that's something else for them to look at.

‍

Ali, just wonderful to talk to you. This is going to be published two days before I see you in Austin. Can't wait for that. So yes, we will have more conversations. And yeah, I wish you all the best and thank you so much for sharing your time with me today.

‍

[Ali Cammelletti]

Thank you, Heather. I appreciate you.

‍

[Heather Bayer]

Well, thank you so much, Ali Cammelletti. That was fantastic. So I hope this conversation sparked something for you.

‍

See what I did there? Ali Cammelletti - Spark Your Mindset... Spark... Yeah, whatever.

‍

So whether it's a new perspective on leadership, or a little more confidence in your role, or maybe you've got a little bit more reassurance that you're not alone in figuring this all out, because I certainly was for years. But we're all learning as we go. And what I loved most about that conversation was Ali's reminder that leadership isn't about having all the answers. It's okay to not know. It's more about showing up with curiosity and compassion and love and a willingness to grow. And that's something we can all do, no matter where we started.

‍

So this episode is part of our special leadership series where we're talking to experts, coaches, and property management and short-term rental professionals, who are learning how to lead in real time just like you. So if you found this valuable, please subscribe to the Vacation Rental Success Podcast so you don't miss the rest of the series. We've got some really great guests lined up. And I know you're going to get so much out of it. 

‍

And as always, if you love this episode, share it with a friend or a colleague in the business, or outside the business, if you like. Leadership is a journey we don't have to take alone.

‍

So thanks for joining me today, and I'll see you next time. 

‍

If there's anything you'd like to comment on, then join the conversation on the Show Notes for this episode at vacationrentalformula.com. We'd love to hear from you and I look forward to being with you again next week.

‍