Mike Bayer
Welcome back to the Vacation Rental Success Podcast. This is Mike Bayer, CEO and co-founder of the Vacation Rental Formula Business School, and I'm thrilled to share the fantastic response we've had to our newest training program, THRIVE Essentials. Launched in October of 2024, THRIVE Essentials is designed to be the ultimate onboarding tool for vacation rental property management teams. It's perfect for quickly bringing new hires up to speed, cutting down on training time, and ensuring they have the essential knowledge to thrive in their new role. With THRIVE Essentials, your team members gain the foundational skills they need to be effective contributors faster, building confidence, loyalty, and job satisfaction right from the start.

Mike Bayer
The feedback from property managers and HR teams has been overwhelmingly positive. Many are saying they wish they had had access to this program years ago. Enroll your new team members in THRIVE Essentials today, and you'll see how quickly they adapt, contributing with confidence and being effective within days. For more details, visit the link in the Show Notes or head to vacationrentalformula.com to see how THRIVE can transform your team.

Mike Bayer
Now, let's get into today's episode. Here's your host, Heather Bayer.

Heather Bayer
One of the things you may not know about me is that I was a hypnotherapist a while back before I got into the short-term rental space. I was able to use my knowledge and skills to impact the way my business became successful. No, not by hypnotizing guests and owners directly, but by using my knowledge of hypnotic language and persuasion techniques in listing copy and communications.

Heather Bayer
We all bring different skills and experience to our roles in the short-term rental industry, and this episode focuses on one property manager who is the perfect example of how diverse life experiences can shape success in our business.

Heather Bayer
This is the Vacation Rental Success Podcast, keeping you up-to-date with news, views, information, and resources on this rapidly changing short-term rental business. I'm your host, Heather Bayer, and with 25 years of experience in this industry, I'm making sure you know what's hot, what's not, what's new, and what will help make your business a success.

Heather Bayer
Well, hello and welcome to another episode of the Vacation Rental Success Podcast. This is your host, Heather Bayer, and as ever I am super excited to be back with you once again.

Heather Bayer
Today, we're talking about how our life experiences can bring a massive impact to how we show up in our vacation rental business. Over the years, I've talked to managers and hosts and always ask them about their journey into the industry. Robin Craigan and his wife, Heather, applied the customer service skills they honed from years in their sailing charter business to their very successful Moving Mountains brand. Andy Meddick brought real estate acumen to Seachange Vacation Rentals, where he built a solid portfolio of rental homes, and it's not necessarily related skills that make a difference. In my time as a property manager, my experience as a hypnotherapist and counselor became foundational for the way we crafted listings using hypnotic language and the way we were able to relate with different types of owners, understanding their motives and goals.

Heather Bayer
So in this episode, I'm talking to a property manager who combines her prior experience in hospitality with her spiritual journey and focus on mindfulness to create memorable experiences and to make everyone who comes into contact with her and her business to feel valued. Valerie Gangas is the founder of Juniper Holiday + Home, a thriving vacation rental and property management company with a distinct twist.

Heather Bayer
Valerie's journey is a perfect example of how those diverse life experiences and skills can shape success in our business. We're going to explore how Valerie's varied background from her childhood in the family restaurant business to becoming a sought-after spiritual coach, an entrepreneur and author, has given her a fresh perspective on the vacation rental industry. We'll discuss how intuition and long-term vision and a deep commitment to hospitality has driven her success.

Heather Bayer
And we'll look at why creating magic for guests and focusing on a strong company culture can make all the difference in a competitive market. So let's go on over to my interview with Valerie and learn more about this. So I am so excited to have with me today somebody that I sat down with at a VRMA conference, not this year, but last year. And We found we had so much in common that I said at that time, got to have you on the podcast. It's been over a year, but I'm so glad to welcome Valerie Gangas from Juniper Holidays + Home to the podcast. Welcome, Val. Thank you so much for joining me.

Valerie Gangas
Thank you for having me.

Heather Bayer
It's an absolute pleasure to finally get you here and to explore all sorts of things. We actually had this discussion before we started recording. And this conversation may go off on a different tangent, but we will see. For those of you who aren't familiar with Val, could you tell us how you got into this business? It's a question I ask everybody that comes on the podcast, because this is that pivotal moment when you decide that this is the business you want to be in. And it usually comes from something that has been experienced in the past, and it just drove you into it. Is that what happened to you?

Valerie Gangas
My answer is probably going to be similar to other people's answers, that I fell into this. My whole background is the restaurant and bar business. My father owned restaurants, my uncles, cousins, everybody on the Greek side of my family, everyone was in hospitality. So I've grown up in hospitality. Worked for, I don't know, 16-18 years in restaurants and bars. That's all I had ever done. But my desire was always to own hotels. It's because I think I wanted to have a longer experience with people, not just a couple hours at dinner. And also I was very fascinated with the idea of creating beautiful spaces where people would stay, going downstairs to a lounge, and also to have dinner, everything happening in one spot.

Valerie Gangas
So back when I was younger, there was no vacation rental company. I mean, that wasn't like a thing for me. So I got into real estate in 2006 while running some of my family's restaurants. And I liked real estate. I liked the idea of picking out a good spot and then what could I build there. And it fascinated me.

Valerie Gangas
So as time went on, we sold all the restaurants. I got out of that business. I took two years off to work for a foundation doing something totally different. And then I got back into real estate, but knowing I wanted to be back in hospitality. So it was actually during COVID that I bought three homes in Vail and 11 homes in Southwest Michigan. It was over that year I designed the homes the way I wanted and started renting them out myself and really learning the business, brought on a housekeeper/maintenance guy and just worked every aspect of the business. And then, very organically, people started contacting me to buy my homes and then keep me on to manage the property. And so I kept saying, no, I don't want to work with the public. I'm just going to do this myself. But it became pretty clear that there was a strong need for someone to be able to manage these homes and manage them really well and at a luxury level. And that's what I wanted. So I sold the first home, kept it on as... I was the property manager. It was very easy for me. Sold the next one, no problem again, and then pulled the trigger and sold all of them in two months. Started the business, and I went from those 11 homes to 80 homes in two years and started a company. It just snowballed once I made up my mind. I don't know, it just happened. Somehow I ended up here. So I didn't plan on it, but I followed the signs and then....., well, here I am.

Heather Bayer
Yeah, but it doesn't just happen, though, does it? I mean, it just feels to you like it happens. But if you dissect it all... And I didn't know that you'd had that real estate background. I knew about the hospitality and the restaurants. I've just got to ask you, did you meet Will Guidara at the Women's Summit at DARM last year?

Valerie Gangas
Yeah, I didn't personally meet him, but I was sitting at one of the first tables right in front of him, and I had already read the book and really had recommended it a lot, I was very, very, very impressed by him.

Heather Bayer
Yeah. Was what he was saying...., because it sounds like your experience in restaurants, and I know you had that experience of different types of restaurants, of fast food restaurants, of more high-end as well. Did what he was saying and what was in Unreasonable Hospitality resonate with you in terms of how you saw hospitality when you were coming up through that restaurant business?

Valerie Gangas
Absolutely. I felt like he reached into my soul and pulled out what had been motivating me since day one and put it on paper. I have always been about experiences for people, the relationships that I have with them, making their time at our restaurants, unforgettable and magical. It's always been that way. I didn't have to think about it. It was just a natural feeling for me. So when I actually saw it written down and how beautifully he stated everything, I'm like, This is it. This is about service. This is about creating experiences for people. And this is why I love hospitality, and will always love hospitality.

Heather Bayer
So we talked real estate, the restaurant business. What you haven't mentioned is the your spiritual background as well. And the fact that you're an author of two books and you are, I suppose, almost a spiritual entrepreneur in a way. Can you just cover that part? Because you bring that into your business as well, and I'm beginning to see already how this all combines. But tell us about that spiritual journey that is reflected in the way that you run the business now.

Valerie Gangas
Yeah. So I've always been a deeply spiritual person. I've always been very interested in the unknown, unseen world, thinking about God and miracles and all those things when I was younger. My mom was a mystical poet, so she would talk to me about different mystics and things that you normally wouldn't be talking about. It's the deeper meaning of life, the interior world.

Heather Bayer
Yeah, the things that don't usually come up at the dining table, right?

Valerie Gangas
Right. But for me, it was totally normal. I mean, my mom, to this day, she was like my soulmate. She was my guru and so she led me down this path, and I was very interested in it anyway. So it's like she was feeding into this deep desire I had anyway for spirituality. And then as time went on, I started reading more and more books about spirituality. And this started in junior high that I really was going deeper. And then by the time I got to college, I wasn't going to even go to college. I thought, I'm just going to start a business, because I had this other side of me that was an entrepreneur from... It's really my mom and my dad. I am a combo platter of these two very, very different people. So I had this, I'm going to go out there and I'm going to start businesses, and that's going to be easy, and I don't need to go to college.

Valerie Gangas
But anyway, the long and the short of it was, I did end up at school, and I said to my parents, The only thing that I care about studying is God. I'll learn everything about business in the real world. So I was a comparative religious studies major, and I minored in women's studies. But I wanted to learn about what people were, what was faith to people around the world, how that shaped their culture, how that shaped their lives. It was such a deep subject for me. And honestly, back then, I thought I just had to study organized religion because I didn't know where else to find this deep level of spirituality that I was looking for. But really, for me, it all hit home after my mom died, and I learned transcendental meditation. After the first meditation, the lights came on, and I never, ever was the same person again. That's when everything changed, and it was no longer about studying these theories and ideas. I became that. The door had opened. And so I just kept walking right into my destiny after that. My spiritual growth and evolution, it became my everything.

Heather Bayer
You worked with Oprah, right?

Valerie Gangas
For two years, I worked with Oprah and all of her employees in the Chicago office. I worked specifically for the David Lynch Foundation. It's a foundation that brings transcendental meditation to different schools, to vets, and different organizations and businesses. So I ended up in a medical school. I started speaking all over the country about meditation and higher states of consciousness, was in marketing firms, trading firms. I ended up in all these businesses, because people started realizing this is very good for my employees and for my business as a whole. And that's why Oprah did that. She introduced TM into her Los Angeles, New York, and Chicago offices for all of her employees.

Heather Bayer
That is amazing. And the reason I wanted to explore all this, because we're talking about bringing all those experiences and skills and knowledge that you had into what you're doing now. So let's just turn it around a bit. And I've heard you say that you see your business as an opportunity to create magic in people's lives, which is going beyond simply providing accommodation by crafting meaningful experiences. So what is that magic? And how have you been able to make those transformations? So I'm bringing you now back into current times and within Juniper Holiday + Home.

Valerie Gangas
So at least for myself, the way I live, I see everything as energy. So I feel energy from people that I deal with, through the website, through my employees. It's all a flow of energy to me. It's how I make decisions all day long. It's a yes, or a no inside of me. It's beyond intuition. I think it's deeply connected to my nervous system, and it's like an alarm that goes off inside of me. That yes/no, it leads me. So I made all of my decisions for this company through that inner compass down to the photos that I use on the website, the gifts, how they're placed in the homes, the music that's playing when the guests walk in, how our guest services interact with the guests. It's a flow of energy through the whole team interacting with all these guests. And I mean, then to take it a step further, I haven't been doing this lately, but when I started, I was working with an energy worker, and I would have her clear the energy in all these homes on a regular basis, because it's, again, that unseen thing that I can feel very clearly.

Valerie Gangas
And I knew in a way that it would influence the experience that people were having in the homes. So asking my cleaning people to please make sure you open the windows and let some fresh air in after every guest and just little things that I've done to control the flow of energy in these homes. And then, of course, the level of customer service. I think we're at an A+ level in this company because it's important. We surprise our guests with birthday cakes and treats for their dogs and really listen to them in the process before they get to our house to make sure when they get there, there's some sparkle, something that's going to make it different for them after they stay with us.

Heather Bayer
So how many properties do you have currently?

Valerie Gangas
I'm 75 right now.

Heather Bayer
All right.

Valerie Gangas
So I'm on the market right now.

Heather Bayer
So let's talk about scaling, because that's what I've heard from people about. When you're making this magic for guests, how do you scale that? So if it's at 75, can you do the same thing at 150?

Valerie Gangas
Sure. I think it's just who we are. I've really only been working with the public for two years, so not that long. I didn't do a whole lot of advertising. And I think actually I came into the area where I'm at in Southwest Michigan pretty quietly. No sign on my office. I never lived there. I mean, I just was constantly going back and forth. I think it was this energy that I'm talking about that took hold of this company and having great relationships with a lot of the real estate agents. And it just turned into all referrals for us. Homeowners telling other homeowners, guests buying homes in the area, and then wanting to work with us. It has been very organic and natural, and it doesn't feel fast to me, but I guess it is. But it was just word-of-mouth, really.

Heather Bayer
Yeah. And direct booking?

Valerie Gangas
Yeah, that was pretty good with us, too. We've consistently been around 60%. I think that has to do with how much we interact with the guests. Right out of the gate, I said, Hey, someone can book on Airbnb once; that's fine. But let's make sure that they don't ever book on an OTA again. So how are we going to make that happen? And that's like, I have a beautiful welcome card in the house. When they get there, without being obnoxious, there's a lot of information sprinkled in about booking directly with us and how that saves money. It's just easier, blah, blah, blah. And that's great. But honestly, I think people really like our guests services and stuff, and they call back, they ask for a specific person, and they tend to just book directly with us the second time around.

Heather Bayer
How do you share this philosophy amongst your team and your particularly new team members? When people come on board for the first time, how does that... How do your values and philosophy just get shared amongst them?

Valerie Gangas
I'm really particular who I will hire right out of the gate. I'd rather spend the time picking the right person than having to deal with having the wrong person and the pain that comes with that. So right out of the gate, I'm asking other people who I think are amazing, who do you know that's amazing for this position? I have pretty much gotten everyone in the company through knowing someone else that's already worked with me. So then we utilize stuff like PI to see what are they really best suited for and what's the best way to communicate with the person. And then lastly, I have the whole company actually meet this person before I hire them. And we have to decide as a group, because I already have a really good group. And I trust these women. It's all women right now. I trust these women 100%. And if they were to say to me, this person is not a good fit for us, and that was a collective 'No', I would not hire that person. So so far, so good, we all work really well together. There's a nice flow. I don't know how far I can take this as we grow, but that's been my method up to this point.

Heather Bayer
I read somewhere and I'm trying to find in my notes where I'd written it down about remote workers. And you have a particular way of working with remote staff that makes them feel that they're really part of the team. And I think that is such an amazing thing to be able to do, because it is difficult to work with people remotely.

Valerie Gangas
Yeah, I think that was one of my largest challenges, because, again, I was used to having my staff at the restaurant. We'd all eat before the shift would start at night. All of our meetings were in person. I mean, we became family at the one restaurant that I was running. It's like there's something about having everyone in person. We're still all close. So I had to rethink all of that because I was not 'in person' with everyone. And I also started this company during COVID, so it is what it is. So I had to think about, how am I going to keep us all connected?

Valerie Gangas
And it really turned into a lot of Zoom calls, flying all over and meeting people in person and sitting down and having a meal with them. That's very important to me to just be with the person and talk about things other than work. I want to really know everyone that I work with. I want to know what they love, what they're passionate about. I'm always open to all of their ideas. And we do use Slack, which is great. It's better than all of us on our cell phones texting each other.

Valerie Gangas
But it really, I think, boils down to the kindness in our company and the respect and really leaning on each other and respecting everyone's ideas and thoughts. It makes for a really peaceful, fun, kind environment. And that does trickle down for me because I won't accept anything but that. I cannot work in a toxic environment. I cannot.

Heather Bayer
It's interesting you talked about sitting down for a meal, and it was one thing that came out to me from Unreasonable Hospitality that was really, yeah, it sort of kicked me. And I thought, I hadn't thought about it like this. And this was the family meal. So he talks a lot about family meal when the whole team sat down to have a meal before the shift started, or before the restaurant opened. And he'd ask everybody to come in with their customer service experiences. What have you done over the last couple of days that has been magic? And I think that's something that really impacted me, that many of the changes that he was making in his own restaurant were coming directly from his staff, from the guy who did the dishes right up, that they would....

Valerie Gangas
Yeah, because they know. I always say, You guys are way smarter than me. You're the ones doing the job. You tell me. I hardly tell anyone what to do anymore, because we're already established now. We have a good thing going. I want to hear their ideas. They're the one doing the job all day. They know way more than me.

Valerie Gangas
And back to the meal, I think this whole thing started for me because at my house growing up, my parents had these beautiful dinner parties all the time. And there was so much preparation and love, and the details meant so much. And it was all surrounding a meal. I don't know if this is an ethnic thing, a Greek thing, but food to us was everything. And my best times and some of my worst times have been around meals. There's something about breaking bread with someone that, at least for me, bonds me with them. It's like I have to eat with them and sit at a table and look at them from across the table to really connect. It's very important to me. So when he wrote about that in the book, that's what we did at the restaurant too, because it is such a bonding experience and a time to share ideas and just be happy.

Heather Bayer
And to be able to translate that to relating to remote staff? I mean, that is challenging, but it sounds like you have been able to get there. So in terms of your staff, how many are actually in an office and how many are remote?

Valerie Gangas
Yes. So we have our main office, which is in Union Pier in Southwest Michigan. There is six people, not counting the housekeepers, in that office.

Heather Bayer
Yeah. That must be a really close-knit group.

Valerie Gangas
Oh, they're amazing. And my head of operations, she is so incredible. She has embodied all of this that we're talking about. She cares about her staff, all the housekeepers, maintenance, the field runners. They're a family there. So again, that's why to me, it's the energy in the leaders that you're picking that makes all the difference in the world.

Heather Bayer
Exactly. So I wanted to talk about Cathedral Thinking because I've been listening to some podcasts that you've been on and been researching some posts that you've written, you've talked about Cathedral Thinking, and I'd love to hear about how you apply that to your business.

Valerie Gangas
Well, really, that was Alex's brainchild. She asked me to speak on a panel about that. I'm always building upon all of this in my mind. It's always growing. I'm always thinking of other businesses, how we can make things better. What is this brand going to look like? That was so important to me from day one, setting the stage for the vibe of Juniper. That's why I cared so much about the website, what our houses look like, who the photographer was. For me, it's all in the details, and then it adds up into something amazing. And I told myself, Okay, if you're going to do this, you're going to do it big. You're going to be the best at what you do, and this is going to carry on. This is going to have meaning. My grandpa always told me growing up, your name is everything. And so I've really felt that way with this company. So I set out from day one to make sure that Juniper has legs, it's respected, and it grows and maybe gets passed on.

Heather Bayer
So when you're thinking that widely, you're implementing some long-term strategies and you make decisions that might not yield immediate results, but they're contributing to the company's lasting success. That's what I hear from that. How do you bring that to your team and to the other stakeholders, guests and owners, to get them understanding what those long term strategies might be?

Valerie Gangas
I mean, I always explain this is a long game. So if we have a new idea and it's going to take us a while to implement it. It's really, again, building on the whole brand. And yes, it might take a year. Yes, it's not going to be automatic. It's not just a hit, but that's okay, because everything that we've done, it just keeps building on itself. It's such a natural progression. So I don't see things in terms of time. I see things in terms of, is this going to improve the whole situation? Is it going to make it even stronger, better? It's like, who cares about time? Time is going to pass, and eventually it'll just be here, and then you're just growing.

Heather Bayer
It's like going with the flow.

Valerie Gangas
Going with the flow, and I'm more interested in the ideas. I'm grateful when I have cool ideas about, well, I would like to see it this way. I was just at a dinner party, and I was explaining that first you have the idea. It's like that intuitive hit, and you know it's a good one. And then you prep, and you plan, you quietly plan, you put everything in place, and then you execute, and then it lives. And then you're just on to the next idea. It's just a flow going through you that, I don't know, it has a life of its own.

Heather Bayer
Yeah, it's a little like what we were talking about before we started recording here about the next thing, about wrapping something up and then moving on, but always having that focus in the future.

Valerie Gangas
I can't help but do that. I have so many ideas. I'm so excited about so many things that it's like, okay, well, what about this? I really want to do that. And I know those ideas are not random because they never have been. Your thoughts about people aren't random. Your ideas about things aren't random. They're popping up for a reason. Look at them. They mean something.

Heather Bayer
Yeah, I firmly believe in that. This is a subconscious speaking, and we just have to listen to it and not just flick those ideas away.

Valerie Gangas
Oh, Absolutely not. They're gold. And really, I think you and I know about making the subconscious conscious, and this is in a positive business sense. That's why I meditate. That's why I spend time alone, quiet, because then I can dive into this magical group of ideas that I have inside of me and then bring them up and make them real. I mean, they're already real to me, even though they're inside of me. It's just I need a way to access them. And for me, it's through silence. If there's too much noise, then I can't... I know they're there, but I can't hold on to them.

Heather Bayer
Yeah. I love my silence, too. Where do you go to find your silence, a physical, in a physical location?

Valerie Gangas
I mean, I love being in nature. It makes me really happy. But I think because I've meditated so much, I could really close my eyes anywhere and dip into that silence. So I've meditated all over the place. I always say, I've been in a cab in Manhattan or airplanes. It doesn't matter to me now until I sold my house three, four weeks ago, whatever it's been. I lived in a town that the majority of the town meditates, and they have these giant... They're like domes where you can go in there with tons of people at the same time, twice a day, and meditate. Those places are seeped in silence, and this town is seeped in silence. So I always say it's been good for me to come here, write books, start companies, because, again, I'm dipping into that well through silence with my ideas.

Heather Bayer
That town sounds awesome.

Valerie Gangas
It's totally awesome.

Heather Bayer
Yeah, and I'm not going to ask you to share where it is either.

Valerie Gangas
It's just a little town in Iowa. It's so random, but it's filled with the most magical people. And there's places like that around Santa Fe, it's a nice magical town. I like being around other spiritual people.

Heather Bayer
Yeah. Yes. I've been to places like that where you feel that the energy is there all around you. And you can just tap into that just by walking down the street.

Valerie Gangas
That's right. I like that. It's exciting to me. And then you bring that into everything that you do all day.

Heather Bayer
Yeah, exactly. Let's just step back into the practicalities again, because you talked about your homes and the little touches, the unique touches that you add to them that makes them feel really special and not just like any other vacation home. And I know, I scroll through LinkedIn, and there's people on LinkedIn that are posting photos of homes, which to me don't feel like... If I looked at that, I think, Yeah, you wouldn't find me dead in a place like that. It's cookie cutter. Even with the murals or whatever, it just doesn't feel right. What do you do to make your places feel magical and right?

Valerie Gangas
I think part of the secret sauce was from day one, I found an incredible designer in the area, and she worked with me on all of my homes, even the ones in Colorado. I knew she had the magic. Her eye is incredible. And this, again, was over many, many meals, talking about details and how she saw things. And I knew that she was my person. I knew immediately when I met her, but diving deeper into her mind, I knew that she could bring that into the home. So since day one, I worked with her and have thoroughly enjoyed going over all the details with her. And then as I started working with the public, you'd be surprised how many people feel very overwhelmed by this process, like when they buy a new home or just even opening up their home as a vacation rental. So I would say the majority of my homeowners have used her to decorate their homes or even smaller projects. And so, again, finding the right person and then her energy spilling over into these homes, it's been everything.

Heather Bayer
Just looking through your website and looking at different properties shows exactly those that reflects that somebody has been and taken care of these homes in a very special way, just like you're talking about. It's important. It's very apparent, just from the placement of pictures on a wall to the types of rugs and floor coverings.

Valerie Gangas
It all matters.

Heather Bayer
Yeah. It seems nothing's left to chance here at all.

Valerie Gangas
No. And honestly, we've turned down a fair amount of people that just maybe aren't right for us or aren't interested in investing anything to make their home ready for our types of guests. So that's another thing. I don't think you should be nervous to say no to people. It's the same with your life. It's like, say yes to the right people and say no to the people that aren't right for you. And that will serve you.

Heather Bayer
I remember as a property manager in the early days, and it was more of a, whoever's coming my way, offering their property, I'm taking it, because I'm going to build up that inventory. It didn't take long to appreciate that that really wasn't the best way forward. But I think it's to some property managers, it is a It's a luxury to be able to turn down a new property. To me, it was the owners. It was more the owners were the most important.

Valerie Gangas
No, it's huge.

Heather Bayer
I didn't get that vibe from the owner.

Valerie Gangas
I know, because you're going to suffer. You are going to suffer. I don't want to suffer. And I think you have to have some faith. Listen, this business is really hard, and you are going to feel the pain. You're going to have months where you're like, Oh, my God, can I pay my bills? It's going to get really hairy. But I think, again, in business and in life, you cannot be desperate. You have to know who you are. You have to stick to this vision and trust that it is going to work out, and it will. But it almost feels like little tests or something. And when I've ignored that, It's not good. It doesn't work out. And actually it takes you back a couple steps instead of moving you forward. So as soon as I said, no, I'm going to roll the dice, and sometimes I'm going to say no to people if they're really not right, that really changed everything, I think, for us. And the team also was like, Oh, my God, are you really saying no to that house? And it's like, yeah, the owner is horrible, and they're going to be really cruel to you, and they're going to take up 90% of your time. And they're too precious for that. It's just not how I roll.

Heather Bayer
I remember we took on a property. It was a designer property. It was built by the architect who owned it. So it was just phenomenal. Probably the best property we had ever had come to us. And we got the bad vibes from the owners at the very outset, but we didn't listen to those vibes.

Valerie Gangas
I know. It's hard. It's really confusing.

Heather Bayer
And we did take it on, and it was our top performer for two years.

Valerie Gangas
Okay, cool.

Heather Bayer
And then we said, No, thank you.

Valerie Gangas
Because it was too much?

Heather Bayer
The owners became too much to handle. I was on a panel with Brooke Pfautz last year at VRMA, and we were talking about the mistakes we made. It was from Vacation Rental Secrets, and I know you were a contributor to Vacation Rental Secrets with your 10 mistakes as well. And one of my biggest mistakes was taking on a property because I fell in love with the property, but not the owners.

Valerie Gangas
It's just another learning experience. Again, I don't want bad energy around me, anyone that works with me. It's like all the girls know, if you have to fire someone, you don't have to ask me, you just fire them. We will not accept it. And it's really set the stage for a lot of good things happening.

Heather Bayer
Yeah, it certainly did for us when we took that leap and we said, okay, no, it's about relationships and it's about the team as well. If we ever had a member of our team come to us and say, I had this call with this owner and she was really rude. Oh, well, that's it. There are no second chances.

Valerie Gangas
I have gotten on the phone and been like, we're done. We are done as of today. I won't accept it. I won't let that happen to the team. It's just not worth it. I always say, there's eight billion people in the world. You don't have to accept scraps. One door is going to close, but then there'll be 50 people behind that person that will be right for you, and then that'll be a joy to work with them. You can't have that scarcity mentality in your business. It's not healthy or productive. You have to believe in what you're doing and know that you're helping these people as much as they're helping you. It's like we're lucky to have each other. And coming from that angle, I don't want someone that's going to come in and be abusive.

Heather Bayer
Yeah, I think that's what turned the corner for us, where we finally said, hey, we are good for you. It's not just you being good for us. We're helping you. And I think we started, and I think a lot of people do start with that mentality that we've got to grab on to anything we can, and we are at the mercy of the owner. And you see this in Facebook groups, and people are commenting about their owners, and like, Well, just fire them.

Valerie Gangas
Yeah, it's not worth it. It's not. It's going to occupy all of your time and your energy when you could be thinking of how to move the company forward or how you can make things better. And instead, you're going to be dealing with someone that's yelling at you because they don't know who they are or they're stressed out. It's always that. It's not what you think it is. It's just they're miserable. So thank you, but no, thank you.

Heather Bayer
Yeah, I learned that years ago from Sarah Bradford. There was a podcast that she and Tim did, and it was about 12 things, how to create boundaries with your owners, basically. And I learned so much from that one episode within my business. And one of the things she said was, don't take shit from your owners.

Valerie Gangas
Seriously. And speaking of Sarah, I mean, I think the reason that I was able to pull this together the way that I did and start having some success and momentum, it's because I worked with Sarah. I mean, I was talking to her sometimes three days a week, and she helped me in every aspect of my business, learn how to do it right. She understood my vision. She totally accepted me for who I was. It's like we could see each other, and she just kept building me up. Now do this. Now do that. And I owe her so much because she transformed the way that I did all this. Because it was very overwhelming at the beginning. And I was on a retreat, and I remember saying, I need to work one on one with someone. I need a mentor. That's how I work. And Matt Landau introduced me to her, and there are no words to explain how much I love her and how grateful I am to her.

Heather Bayer
A very, very special person.

Valerie Gangas
Absolutely. She is amazing.

Heather Bayer
Let's talk about community, because you also value the sense of community that you've built up. How do you create that? How do you get out and work with the community in such a way? Is it that bring value to each other?

Valerie Gangas
Are we talking about all the vacation rentals?

Heather Bayer
Yeah, I'm talking about more local communities. What would you do and go out and connect with businesses in the area?

Valerie Gangas
Yeah. So again, I love people. I've always been really social. I love meeting new people, going to parties, dinners. I'm just an extrovert. So as far as where we are in Michigan, I just started meeting all sorts of people and then meeting a group of friends that then introduced me to all of their friends and different business owners. So really, it was through socializing that I met a ton of people.

Valerie Gangas
And then I wanted to incorporate some of the amazing businesses in my area into my business. So I found the best coffee probably I've ever had in my life. And so now I always have Red Arrow Roasters in all of our homes. And I promote her because she is amazing and the coffee is amazing. And I know when I'm staying at a short-term rental, I want to wake up and have an awesome cup of coffee. So bringing that in. And then all my favorite restaurants, local businesses, we have beautiful guidebooks that we talk about the restaurants, things that you should order, things that we love, really making it a little bit more personal. And then, of course, the concierge service and all the different places that people ask about.

Valerie Gangas
We have our favorites because we have a really strong relationship with all these people in the area, and we know what's good. So it just started off as a social thing, and then it turned into really probably giving them all a lot of business.

Heather Bayer
Yeah, and I'm sure it goes back the other way as well.

Valerie Gangas
For sure. I can't believe how cool everybody has been, and how many referrals we get, And people saying, Juniper is the best. You need to work with them. It makes me want to cry. I can't believe it. But then I also turn around and say, this is the best place to go get a cheeseburger. This is the best place to go get donuts. Because I just know, because now I met everybody in the area.

Heather Bayer
I had a long discussion the other day with Travis Wilburn from the 100 Collection, and I know that you are part of the 100 Collection, too. And he talked for 90 minutes, in fact, on the value of getting involved with community and making those partnerships. And so I love how you talk about that, because it does seem like it is such an integral part of what you do.

Valerie Gangas
I don't know how we could run these types of businesses if you weren't involved with the community. I mean, I just naturally want to be. It's no skin off my back, it just brings me joy. But I mean, we're companies that are local. We're not like Marriott or something. So I don't even see how you could run a company like this if you didn't know a ton of people in the area. There's no downside to it.

Heather Bayer
Yeah. And that's interesting because I've been doing some work on creating some tutorials that share to people who are new to this business what it's about. And part of that is telling them the difference between remotely run companies and locally-based companies. And it was going into that research, and I'm thinking, how ever do these remote companies that have no clue about a location, how can they be as successful as a local company where the boots on the ground know the businesses, know what they're recommending, and support each other?

Valerie Gangas
I I mean, we're about to go into some new markets, and immediately, right out of the gate, I was like, Okay, well, I'm just going to move there, and I'm going to recreate what I did in Michigan, and I'm going to meet everybody, and it'll be very easy for me. And I will begin the process again because it does start with community and meeting people. And I have to know for myself, what's the best street? Where's the best place to get gelato? I'm a person that needs to experience things, and then I know it. And then I can talk about it, and I can plan things, and I can build things. So I think it's hugely important. And then after that, it comes down to hiring the right people who are going to be your boots on the ground. If you are going to be in multiple locations, in these different locations I go into, I will make sure that I hire the best, and they will be involved with the community because they'll naturally just want to.

Heather Bayer
Yeah, exactly. That was, in fact, just about my last question. It was going to be, what's next for for Juniper Holiday + Home. So I guess moving into new locations is one. Anything else that is coming up in the next few years?

Valerie Gangas
I think there will be some hotels. That's definitely part of the plan, because, again, that was my childhood dream. Now I'm going to make it happen. And I think some really important partnerships are going to happen that are really going to change everything for us. And that's really what's next for me.

Heather Bayer
That is fabulous. And we'll look forward to hearing what those things are, I'm sure, as we go into the future.

Valerie Gangas
Thanks.

Heather Bayer
This has been such a great session, Valerie. And I'm so glad that you had the time to come and talk to me about this. We've done some wide-ranging stuff. I know we could have talked more and more about a whole load of other things, but maybe that's for another time.

Valerie Gangas
I have a whole laundry list for you that's waiting in the parking lot that we're going to need to discuss.

Heather Bayer
Okay. Well, for now, I just want to thank you for joining me. It's been such a pleasure. I did have a list of questions. I think I might have looked at one of them. It's always great to have these free flowing conversations, and I feel that that's how this worked out, and I'm sure people will find huge value from it.

Valerie Gangas
Thanks, Heather.

Heather Bayer
Well, thank you so much, Val Gangas for spending that time with me. We certainly explored a lot in that episode, I do hope you enjoyed it. We went down some roads I hadn't predicted, and I had a whole list of questions that I didn't ask because I just wanted to let that conversation flow. Go and take a look at Juniper Holiday + Home, it's a beautiful website, and it is the epitome of what Val is trying to achieve, her goals and her vision for the business. And my viewpoint is we learn something, even if it's just a little thing from everywhere we go, everything we look at. So take a look at the website, see what you can take away from it.

Heather Bayer
And also from some of the things we talked about, going from developing that amazing team to having the faith in the team. And I think that's what came across to me so powerfully, was having so much faith in the team that they just get on and do it and create without your input. But they're doing it in a way that helps you achieve your goals and helps you get to where you want to be with your business.

Heather Bayer
So as ever, if you want to know more about Valerie, go to the Show Notes. I'll have a link to her LinkedIn profile. We didn't really mention the two books that she's written. I've got links to both of those books in the Show Notes as well and encourage you to explore a little more about what she does and the methods that she's using to create success.

Heather Bayer
Thank you once again for joining me. Always an absolute pleasure to have you share time and have my voice in your ear. As I've said before, if you've got any ideas of who you'd like me to have on the show or to interview, please let me know. You can email me at heather@vacationrentalformula.com, and I will reply to you. So that's it from me for another week and I look forward to being with you again next time.

Heather Bayer
It's been a pleasure as ever being with you. If there's anything you'd like to comment on, then join the conversation on the Show Notes for the episode at vacationrentalformula.com. We'd love to hear from you, and I look forward to being with you again next week.

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