Mike Bayer:
Hey there and welcome back to the vacation rental success podcast. Mike here from the Vacation Rental Formula Business School and I've got some huge news today that you won't want to miss. After months of work with our THRIVE Training System clients and in consultation with our advisory board, the THRIVE Essentials Course is finally live. That's right, THRIVE Essentials, the ultimate onboarding tool for vacation rental teams is officially available starting today. And if you're a property manager who struggles with the time it takes to train new hires, this course is the perfect tool for you. THRIVE Essentials will teach your new team members everything from the inner workings of a property management company to excelling in hospitality and contributing to a vibrant work environment if they work virtually or in person. The best part? For the entire month of October, we're offering the course at a special launch price. There's a catch - once October ends, the price goes up, so now is the time to act. Go to vacationrentalformula.com, or visit the link in the description of this episode on your smart device and sign up today. Lock in your special October pricing. This is what you've been looking for to help streamline your new hire onboarding so you can focus on the important parts of developing them for their specific roles. Go now and secure your registration. 

Now, let's talk a little bit more about THRIVE and the steps to ensure a new team member can make an impactful contribution to the team from day one in this episode of the Vacation Rental Success Podcast. And here's your host, Heather Bayer.

Heather Bayer:
This is the Vacation Rental Success Podcast, keeping you up to date with news, views, information, and resources on this rapidly changing short-term rental business. I'm your host, Heather Bayer, and with 25 years of experience in this industry, I'm making sure you know what's hot, what's not, what's new, and what will help make your business a success.

Hello and welcome to another episode of the Vacation Rental Success Podcast. I'm joined today by my son and business partner, Mike Bayer. You just heard from him. We are going to be talking about how you can transform your new hires into top performers. And there's a story behind this. We're going to talk about that story and how I learned how important it was to incorporate knowledge right up front when you take on board new hires. And we're going to be talking about that. We're going to be talking about seven steps to enable you to do it. 

Mike, welcome! Super to have you back here on the show. You should do this more often.

Mike Bayer:
I know. We have so many wonderful people in our vacation rental, short-term rental industry that it's sometimes hard to slide me into the podcast guest seat, but it's always nice to be here. And we obviously have something to share and talk about because we've been working very hard on a passion project that came out of something we started at the beginning of this year. And that's the whole process of onboarding new team members onto your property management company’s rockstar team. 

We’re going to go through the key seven steps that are often left out, purely because we have a bad habit of onboarding people in the busiest time of the year. And this is what we heard from a lot of our THRIVE Training System clients through this summer—the challenge of giving people the foundational knowledge they need to succeed while deferring that for the training that is specific to their role.

Heather Bayer:
Yeah, as I just mentioned in that introduction, there is history behind all this. And the history is that I was a property manager for 20 years, and there were a lot of things that I didn’t do as well as I could have done over that time. One of the major ones, when I look back, was that we never had a really good process for bringing new people onto the team. I guess we must have done something right because our team members are still there with the new owners of the company, even after I sold it. But one of them, our office manager, has been there, I think, 17 years now. And the story I’m going to tell you is about another team member who I think has just passed 12 years with the company, and she is doing amazingly well now in her role as a business development manager. She’s doing owner acquisition.

When we hired Kaitlin, she had just graduated from, what was the course she was doing, Mike?

Mike Bayer:
It was a diploma program in Communications and Social Media Marketing.

Heather Bayer:
And that, way back, we're talking 12 odd years ago. Social media wasn’t as massive as it is now, but it was really gaining some ground. When Kaitlin started, she was thrown in the deep end with a lot of this new social media stuff. She’d learned a lot about the theory, and we hired her as our Marketing Manager. So she’s straight out of college, she gets the title of manager, and she’s off and running. It wasn’t until I sold the company 10 years after that, and the new owners came in. Within three or four months, Kaitlin was out of that role of marketing manager and into a new role in owner acquisition. She became the business development manager and she is doing fantastically at it.

I was out having coffee the other day with my old business partner, and he said, “She just loves it. She is out there bringing on new owners every single day. She does all the photography and the Matterport [virtual tour system]. She’s in her element.” And I said to him, she never was in that role as marketing manager, and I’m not going to say she wasn’t great at it, but I don’t think she ever really enjoyed it.

Mike Bayer:
I think quite often you will find employees who have certifications and qualifications on their resume and you may hire them based on that. But what we’ve learned over the last few months of conversations with Steve Trover and the team at Better Talent, as we’ve been looking to hire people for the Vacation Rental Formula Business School, is that certifications and that kind of knowledge actually take second seat to the person’s personality and whether or not they’re the right person for the job you’re hiring. Every job requires a slightly different personality to really thrive and excel. And that’s what we’ve learned. In this episode, we’re talking about more specifically the foundational knowledge base to give people, so no matter what role they’re going into, they can relate their role to how the property management company can succeed and move forward in all aspects of the business. But I think at the end of the day, you’ve always got to look at the person you’re hiring. Are they the right person for the right seat? And it doesn’t come down to just qualifications.

Heather Bayer:
No, exactly. The other thing I wanted to mention is that when Kaitlin came on board, and in fact, when all of our team members came on board, I was always looking for some form of training to give them because none of them had any experience. They had no knowledge of the industry or the business whatsoever. Our office manager, who has been there 17 years, said when she started, she came on board as a bookkeeper and then became our office manager. And it took her months before she really figured out how it actually all worked—that people actually rented their homes out. She just couldn’t really get to grips with that.

I’d searched high and low for courses or something that I could get them to sit down with and say, “Okay, you just do this online training, and that will give you all the background that you need to know about this industry.” There was never anything. Then there was never anything at the time we sold the business. There is training out there for virtual assistants to teach them how to do customer service. There’s training for sales, but there is nothing that can be delivered to a brand new team member that says, “This is what vacation rentals are all about. This is the role of a property management company. Here’s the software and technology you will encounter. These are the core values of this business that you’ll encounter as well. These are the industry standards and best practices. Here’s how to excel in hospitality.” And most important of all, “This is how you work in this type of team, in this type of environment.”

So, this is what we want to talk about today—the seven things that every team member needs to know before they really get up and running in the business. I think what’s happened a lot in the industry this past busy summer is, as you mentioned earlier, Mike, they’ve taken new hires on, and then within three or four weeks, they’re gone. They can’t figure out why this is. We mentioned perhaps not having the right people in the right seats, but I did talk to a manager recently who said, “This person we got in just did not understand what the business was about. She struggled because she saw the business through the lens of Airbnb—because that’s all they know.”

Mike Bayer:
What we’re going to talk about today is going to give that new team member within your property management company these key points before you start that specific role training. This can just take a very short period of time, you know, within a few hours, with the right online delivery. So, let’s get cracking. And so what’s the first one? Let’s talk about the very first step, which I think is a really good one, which is the history and evolution of vacation rentals. Let’s talk about that. So, why is that important?

Heather Bayer:
It’s important because of what I just said. Anybody who has come into the work market since 2014 would see the business only through the lens of Airbnb, because Airbnb has taken over the airwaves. Anyone who has been looking for a vacation rental will probably have used Airbnb, and that’s probably all they know. We think it’s really important that they understand that this industry didn’t begin in 2014 with Airbnb. It started out a lot earlier, and particularly if a new team member is coming in to join a property management company that’s been around a long time. They’re joining a company that was in the business way before Airbnb. That history is going to be really important to any new team member there.

And I believe it’s crucial for new hires to understand about HomeAway and VRBO, and how VRBO became Vrbo, and how Booking.com came on the scene after being really popular in Europe and now popular in the U.S. So what we put together is a shortish module, but it gives this timeline of the vacation rental business and looks at some industry trends and key concepts about that timeline.

Mike Bayer:
Yeah, because there have been some huge changes. That transition from magazines and catalogs to the internet, and then the growth of the internet, the growth of the online travel agencies, and now the resurgence of larger franchised property management companies. There’s such a big story here, and I think just anybody coming into the business needs to have a little bit of understanding of where we were, where we are, and then what the industry trends are. Like, what are we trending towards? It doesn’t matter what role you’re in, whether you’re a frontline cleaner, or if you are the operations manager coming in, especially if you’re coming in from another industry—from hotels or any other travel agency, cruise ships—and you want to stay in the hospitality or travel industry. This is essential foundational knowledge for somebody to understand so they can really get a grasp on where the company is in that story.

Heather Bayer:
Especially as we evolve, it becomes even more complex. We’re starting to introduce AI. We’re getting to grips with dynamic pricing. These are all the different things, and these are entire roles for somebody within your organization.

Mike Bayer:
Yeah, we’re going to come back to that in a second when we talk about software and technology. But let’s move on to the second and arguably the most important one of these seven. And that is teaching people what the role of a property management company actually is. Because I think what happens is that a new team member comes in, maybe it’s a reservationist, maybe it’s a guest experience person, or even a business development manager, and they’re told what to do in that role, but perhaps not given enough information about how all these pieces all hang together and make that whole—with the ultimate goal, of course, of achieving ultimate guest satisfaction.

Heather Bayer:
It’s the old adage of any team—you can look at sports—that any member of a sports team understands the role that the other teammates play on the team. Because without that understanding, you can’t come together and anticipate what your teammate needs. So, when we’re talking about property management companies, you have to ensure that every member of staff is aware of what the roles are when it comes to serving the company stakeholders. We have four key stakeholders, and that’s the guest, the owner, the community, and the team.

Mike Bayer:
So if you’re hiring a reservationist who comes in without any training about the roles of a property management company, the different stakeholders involved, they’re going to arrive in their seat at their desk with their telephone and headset, and what they’re all going to think about is, “I’m serving the guest. That is it.” However, if they understand that they’re placing that guest into a home that is owned by a third-party owner who is trusting your company with that property, you are then going to be putting that guest into a property that has neighbors. So you have to think about the neighbors to that property. And then you have to think about how the members of your team—in housekeeping, in guest services, and maintenance—how they are then going to have to service that guest.

Heather Bayer:
Yeah, and I think the key thing here is when you’re hiring the right person for the right seat, you’ve already thought about that. You’re already bringing in the correct person. But it’s the hardest thing to do—to make sure that they are well-trained. Because if you don’t do that, it can be the worst experience. Knowing what this property management company does is at the core of that training.

Mike Bayer:
So the third one is vacation rental software and technology. I think, once again, somebody arrives at a company, they’re sat down in a seat, and they’re shown the PMS. “This is our property management software. This is what it does. Here’s the channel manager.

This is about dynamic pricing.” Now, the question is, yes, they’re going to be shown their PMS, but how many days is it before that new employee is comfortable asking, “What does PMS mean?”

Heather Bayer:
Yeah, that means a lot of different things to a lot of different people.

Mike Bayer:
Indeed. And it’s one of the reasons that in our THRIVE Essentials Course, we have the most massive glossary of terms, so that we cover all the jargon, the acronyms, and the abbreviations. I think this industry is great at producing abbreviations for everything. I came across something the other day, and it was a TWA. Does it have a TWA? And I said, “What is that?” Go on, guess what it is.

Heather Bayer:
I was going to say in the fire service, it’s time-weighted average!

Mike Bayer:
No! A TWA is a three-word acronym. So if it doesn’t have a TWA, it’s not worth being in the business anyway! So, yes, we sit them down, show them all this, and then they’re expected to get on and work with it.

Heather Bayer:
If you start off by telling your new hires about all the different types of software they may come across in a company to go and work with, they will encounter a property management system (PMS). They will likely encounter dynamic pricing. So we tell them what that is. They will likely encounter something called a channel manager. It was years before I figured out what a channel manager actually was, going back to 2012, 2014 when it started to become common in this industry. But now everyone is meant to know what it means. And then, what about guest communication software? Operations software? Some companies will have a PMS that covers everything, but others will have this huge vertical tech stack that someone is meant to learn. But if they understand what all of these tools are and what their purposes are at the outset, it will be much easier for them to take it all on board.

Mike Bayer:
Yeah, I think it’s understanding how each piece of technology fits into the business operations, because you will be in communication with other team members, and they’re going to be referring by name to different pieces of software or technology the company uses in different divisions. Now, if a new hire is not familiar with those names or that terminology, it can completely throw off their understanding of what someone is asking them to do. So it’s not just making them aware of the software and technology they’ll be using in their role, but also understanding the software and technology used across different divisions in the organization. They don’t need to know how to use it, but they need to know what it’s called, why it’s used, and how it may help them in their role.

Heather Bayer:
Yeah, it’s just understanding the purpose and functions of all the things that are in place. You don’t have to go into deep detail about what Breezeway does if you’re not involved in using Breezeway in your job, but just knowing that perhaps Breezeway is in operation at this company will help out more holistically.

Mike Bayer:
Especially if you’re hiring people into roles that require them to use a lot of technology. It helps if they have experience with platform interconnectivity. But also, you’ll be bringing in people with knowledge from other organizations. If there’s a problem or inefficiency with the software, they may have a lightbulb moment. They might say, “I had the same problem at another company, and this is what we used to solve it.” So you’re also empowering your new team members to understand the operational tech stack and potentially suggest solutions to problems you didn’t even know existed.

Heather Bayer:
Yeah, exactly. So the fourth one is core values, and there’s been an interesting exchange on LinkedIn recently because I mentioned something about values. I was asking if there’s anybody out there who incorporates their company values into what they do operationally, and it was interesting that I had very little response.

Mike Bayer:
Yeah, I think it’s very easy, especially now with AI, to say, “Oh, help me create a vision statement, a mission statement, and give me six core values for my company.” That’s great, but if you don’t actually believe in them as the leadership team, if it’s not something that resonates with you and keeps you going each day, then they’re pointless. And once you have something that you do believe in, from your heart, if you’re not actively pursuing getting those core values out to your team every single day and ensuring that they’re embodying those core values, then again, they’re just words on a page in a manual, or vinyl letters on a wall that don’t mean anything. So I think that’s the key—you need to actively, as a leadership team within your organization, be taking those core values and ensuring you’re actually doing tasks and activities that directly relate to those values you’re trying to embody. And of course, bringing on a new team member—they’re going to know within the first week whether or not these four, five, or six core values they’ve been told to learn and live by are actually being practiced. If they aren’t, they’ll quickly realize they’re just words on paper.

Heather Bayer:
Yes, I completely agree. We’ve worked with a company called Beach Getaways in Gulf Shores, Orange Beach, and the Furlongs—Deb and Ken Furlong—have a set of values that they follow and embed deeply into their company culture. One of the things I love about their values is that not only does every employee have a printed, pocket-sized copy of them, but they also post them very clearly on their website. You can go onto the Beach Getaways website and find their core values and see how they’re incorporating those into their day-to-day operations.

Mike Bayer:
And at the end of the day, how do you take these core values and incorporate them into every team meeting, every monthly report? What activities are we doing or have we achieved that align with our core values?

Heather Bayer:
Yeah, and within THRIVE, we have the core values of trust, responsibility, and hospitality within a vibrant environment. Those are our core values. But trust, responsibility, and hospitality should be the values of just about every company that operates in this industry. They may not announce them, but it’s something that I think is important to discuss with a new team member from the very beginning, introducing them to what business values actually are and how they are embedded into the organization.

Mike Bayer:
Yeah, absolutely. I think responsibility ties right into our next step, which is industry standards and best practices. I think we are moving to a point where industry standards that cover things like safety, legal compliance, and high customer service expectations are pretty much universal. And with someone that’s arriving for the first time and has no experience in this industry, to be told about those three primary standards and best practices is something that needs to be done on the very first day.

Heather Bayer:
A lot of people see responsibility as a core value that’s very broad, and it incorporates these three things: safety, legal compliance, and high customer service expectations. You have a responsibility as an organization to adhere to these. And this is the same with any industry, no matter what field you’re in. But what we see in the short-term rental space or the vacation rental space is that you begin to have these pockets of bad actors, people who are focused on making money as fast as possible by renting out a space without caring about how they do it. And I think it’s those bad actors that unfortunately give the whole industry a bad name and provide a platform to the naysayers of what we do in short-term rentals.

Mike Bayer:
This is where regulations come in. If we are not doing our utmost to visibly illustrate on our website, in our communications, in our social media, how we as professional vacation rental property management companies are upholding these basic standards of safety and legal compliance, that’s when we start to have our neighborhoods and communities rally against us. And this has never been more important as regulations and legislation pop up all over North America, Europe, and the world. We have to be on guard and doing our best. And that starts with the new employee. If you can instill in them a mindset of safety—to look at every interaction with a guest, homeowner, and the team through the lens of safety—we’ll have much better relationships with our communities and ensure we’re seen as good, responsible companies.

Heather Bayer:
That’ll make Justin Ford happier too!

Mike Bayer:
Yes, he’s one of a handful of lighthouses out there who are trying to steer us away from the rocks. Unfortunately, some people will ignore the lighthouse because they want to take a shortcut, and then they wonder why their boat’s up on the rocks. I feel strongly about the message that Justin is trying to get out there—Justin Ford from Breezeway, who is a short-term rental safety expert—that there are too many people who roll their eyes and say, “Oh, he’s going over the top.” But no, he’s not. We are providers to the traveling public. You have a completely different standard to maintain, and it far exceeds what we’re used to in the short-term rental industry. But before too long, we’ll have to meet these standards, like having fire escapes illuminated and mounted fire extinguishers, which we should already be doing. These basic safety elements are required in commercial businesses, and if you’re a commercial business, you have to do things better. You have to take responsibility. Sorry, I feel like I’m getting on a bit of a rant.

Heather Bayer:
Yeah, you’re on your safety bandwagon, and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Mike Bayer:
I’ll take my cape off and put it away!

Heather Bayer:
But this is all about best practices, and this is what has to be taught to those new team members right at the very beginning. These are the industry standards, these are the best practices for safe, legal, and compliant operation of a business in this industry. And once again, I’m going back to my own experience, and I don’t think we taught that to anybody who came in new to the business. But how useful would it be now? Now we’ve gone through all these iterations of creating these seven steps and putting them into an online course, I look back and think, why didn’t we ever do this? Why didn’t we take these steps to ensure that everyone who joined us had such valuable knowledge at the outset, rather than just feeding it to them piecemeal?

Mike Bayer:
Yeah, very rarely do entrepreneurs, unless you’re seeking capital investment and starting off with millions, have the resources to bring on staff and properly onboard them. By the time you can afford to hire people, you’re already spinning in the hamster wheel, and it’s hard to find the time to properly onboard them. That’s why you need a formal onboarding procedure with steps written down and decided by your team. This is part of leadership—looking at every person and figuring out what they need to know, what’s valuable to them. And that’s what we’re trying to do with THRIVE Essentials. We’re taking what would normally take multiple days of training and compressing it into a few hours at the computer. You could even give them the course to complete before day one. This is why you want them there, to take pressure off that part of the business. But you also want to give them the best foundation for success.

Heather Bayer:
So let’s move on to the next one, which is excelling in hospitality. Anyone coming into this business needs to know about hospitality. If you’re going into a hotel or restaurant, you’d do a course that covers hospitality. But there’s nothing there for vacation rental hospitality, so you have to do it yourself. Understanding the seven stages of the guest experience is crucial. Explaining to your new hire what that means, and how every member of the team is responsible for every stage—from dreaming about their vacation to booking it, to confirming it, to the anticipatory stage between booking and stay, to the in-stay experience, and finally to the post-stay follow-up. Explaining all of those stages is a primary piece of information. They need to know guest expectations so they can understand why people complain when they do, and they can adapt.

Mike Bayer:
Absolutely. And I think when you’re going through the history of the property management company with your new hire, you’ll also discuss the difference between OTA bookings and direct bookings. The only way you’re going to transition to direct bookings is if your guest trusts you, and hospitality is a key part of that. Every touchpoint, from the moment they consider booking with you to after they leave, needs to make them feel special. That will build trust, and it’s what will make them come back and book directly with you next time. But hospitality isn’t just about the guest. It’s also about the other stakeholders—the owners, the community, and the team. Hospitality can apply to all of them with just as much enthusiasm. A new owner coming in, for example, could be greeted warmly, with a clean boardroom and maybe even a welcome basket. Those little touches help build trust. The same goes for the community and the team. If you’re hospitable, people will be loyal and stay with you.

Heather Bayer:
Yeah, I love that you keep coming back to making sure that onboarding considers all the stakeholders—the guests, the owners, the community, and the team. That’s really key. And we’re nearly at the end now. The last point is thriving in virtual, remote, and office teams. This is an interesting one because how you onboard someone will differ depending on whether they’re going to work in the office every day or if they’re working virtually, maybe even in another country. It’s just as important to have the same onboarding process for a virtual assistant as it is for a full-time employee who comes into the office daily.

Mike Bayer:
That’s right. And some organizations will have different structures. You have your virtual team, your in-office team, and then you have employees who come into the office, collect their work orders, and leave. So they don’t spend much time in the office and don’t get that same thriving work environment. But regardless, you need to ensure that all team members are contributing and receiving from that environment. And that’s where communication and collaboration tools become so important. Whether they’re virtual, remote, or in-office, new hires need to know how to use those tools so they’re not left wondering who to ask for help or what to do when they run into a problem.

Heather Bayer:
Yeah, and in my business, all our team was remote. We had a small office in the basement of my home when we started, but when we grew, we decided not to get an office. Everyone worked remotely, all over the province of Ontario. We had good communication systems—first Skype messaging, then Slack. Every company is different, but you need to ensure your new hires understand how your systems work so they never feel isolated or unsure of what to do.

Mike Bayer:
I think that’s crucial for a thriving team. And something else I would recommend is making sure you have at least a monthly or bi-monthly full team meeting via Zoom or WebEx, where you reiterate your core values. This helps everyone feel part of the team, even if they’re remote. And if possible, get everyone together in person once a year. It can solidify relationships and help people understand each other better. It’s a valuable thing to do, even if it’s only possible every other year.

Heather Bayer:
It’s interesting because I hear more and more vendors in the industry doing this. Touch Stay, for example, has a lot of remote workers, and they try to get everyone together once a year. OwnerRez did a retreat and even brought in Matt Landau to help run it. So, I think it’s worth learning from these vendors and thinking about how you can bring your team together.

Mike Bayer:
Okay, I think that about wraps it up. Just to recap, we talked about seven things that you need to teach people who are joining your company, whether they have prior industry knowledge or not. This is always worthwhile to do, even for someone who’s coming from another company—it’s a good refresher and a way to bring them back to what the foundation is. They may not have received this information at their previous company, so it’s important to cover it.

We talked about the history—teaching them the history of the industry. We talked about explaining the role of a property management company and who the stakeholders are. Then, we discussed the different types of software and technology that are used in your business, and how those systems fit together, even if the new hire isn’t directly involved with every part of the tech stack. Letting them know what the structure is can really help.

Next, we talked about sharing your company’s core values—if you have them in place and if they’re embedded in your company culture. Also, we discussed the wider industry values of trust, responsibility, and hospitality. Then, we moved on to industry standards and best practices, covering safety, legal compliance, and the responsibilities that anyone working in this industry must be aware of.

We also talked about excelling in hospitality and the seven stages of the guest experience. This is really important, especially for younger people who may have only had experience with Airbnb bookings. They need to know that there are different stages in the guest journey and how they can contribute to every stage.

Finally, we covered thriving in virtual, remote, or in-office teams. We talked about how important it is to ensure that everyone knows how communication and collaboration tools work, regardless of where they’re located, so they’re never left wondering who to ask or what to do when they have an issue.

We wrapped it all up by discussing structured onboarding, which should focus on skills development, cultural alignment, and clear communication.

Do you think we covered it all?

Heather Bayer:
Yes, absolutely. One of the things I’ve taken away from conversations I’ve had throughout the summer is that the companies seeing success with new employee onboarding are the ones that have a formal, structured process. As I mentioned earlier, it’s essential to have a documented process covering all the things you want to introduce to your new hires. And don’t stray from it. Even if someone is coming from another company, they should still go through your onboarding process because how things were done at their previous company might not reflect how you do things. Sticking to your policy and procedure, working them through a day or two of foundational training, then focusing on their individual role—that’s how you set them up for success. Not only will they become a fantastic contributing asset, but they’ll be happier in their role, and it’s less likely that they’ll leave within a few weeks because they feel lost and overwhelmed.

Mike Bayer:
Exactly. And to reinforce that, Steve Trover said something really important: A well-structured onboarding plan increases the chance of long-term success and retention by over 80%. 

Heather Bayer:

That’s a figure well worth remembering.

Mike Bayer:
Absolutely. Just before we wrap up, I think it’s a good idea to remind you that the THRIVE Essentials Program is now live. THRIVE Essentials covers exactly what we talked about today, in-depth. We provide this incredible online resource that you can register your new employees for, and they can complete the training within a few hours. It will give them the foundation they need to really step into their role and be highly successful, with a wider understanding of how they can be a contributing member of your team. Through the month of October, we have a special offer—if you sign up within October, you’ll get a significant discount. So make sure to visit vacationrentalformula.com, or click the link in the description of this episode. You’ll be directed to the information page where you can find out more.

Heather Bayer:

Mike, thank you so much for joining me on this episode. It’s always a pleasure to chat with you. We talk every day, 15 times a day, but having this conversation face to face like this has been really good. I’ve enjoyed it, and I hope you have too. I trust that everyone listening will take this information and use it however they wish.

Heather Bayer:
It’s been a pleasure, as ever, being with you. If there’s anything you’d like to comment on, then join the conversation in the show notes for this episode at vacationrentalformula.com. We’d love to hear from you. And I look forward to being with you again next week.

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