Mike Bayer
Welcome to the Vacation Rental Success Podcast. The Vacation Rental Management Growth Accelerator Coaching Program starts tomorrow on Thursday, September 5th. If you have not taking a few minutes to find out more about the program, you can still click the link in the description or visit vacationrentalformula.com to get more information. But don't be deterred if you missed the September 5th start date, there is still time to get signed up, watch the replays of any sessions that you've missed.

Mike Bayer
If you have any questions, reach out and DM Vacation Rental Formula on any social platform or email us at highfive@vacationrentalformula.com.

Mike Bayer
Let's get this episode going. Here's your host and coach, Heather Bayer.

Heather Bayer
Would you love to hire a vastly experienced and savvy executive to help your business grow, but you just don't have the budget for it right now? It's a bit of a chicken and egg situation, and one that can be resolved by getting that person to come in either short-term or part time. It's called fractional leadership, and the trend is on the rise across all industries, and ours is no exception. Today, I'm talking to two experienced professionals who serve multiple companies in a fractional role. Really interesting conversation, you're going to enjoy this one.

Heather Bayer
This is the Vacation Rental Success Podcast, keeping you up-to-date with news, views, information resources on this rapidly changing short-term rental business. I'm your host, Heather Bayer, and with 25 years of experience in this industry, I'm making sure you know what's hot, what's not, what's new, and what will help make your business a success.

Heather Bayer
Well, hello and welcome Welcome to another episode of the Vacation Rental Success Podcast. This is your host, Heather Bayer, and as ever, I am super delighted to be back with you once again.

Heather Bayer
This is the day that when I was running a property management company, we just waited all summer for, the last week of the season. Because up here in Canada, our summer season, our really busy high season, does not finish until just after the Labor Day weekend, because our schools don't go back until then. So kids go back to school this week, and that's when it all began to tail off, and we all heaved this massive, massive sigh of relief. And even two years down the line, it still gets me. I've been thinking about this all the way through the summer, each Saturday when it was pouring with rain, and I was thinking, Oh, my gosh, they've got 150 check-ins going on this afternoon, and it's pouring with rain, and everybody's unhappy and looking for somebody to blame.

Heather Bayer
So that came to mind around four o'clock every Saturday in this summer, which, in fact, I would say 60% of the summer Saturdays were rainy this year. So I haven't spoken to anybody from my former company over the summer. I will probably catch up with them in the next few weeks once everything's quietened down a bit and just find out how it went.

Heather Bayer
Anyhow, I'm still really pleased that I do not have to be involved with that anymore. But of course, I am still involved in the vacation rental business in a big, big way. I'm really looking forward to our coaching program, which starts tomorrow. And if you have not joined, it's definitely not too late. There is a link on the Show Notes to the website, where you can go and have a look and see what's going to go on over the next few weeks with all our expert speakers. It's going to be awesome.

Heather Bayer
The other thing that I'm excited about today is that as I publish this, so another episode is being published on the Alex and Annie Podcast, and they interviewed me. So over there, I'm actually talking a little bit more about the whole issue of education in this space. And I actually tell them quite a lot more about the coaching program, so I won't say too much more here. I would suggest once you've listened to this, you go on over and listen to Alex and Annie. There will be a link to that on the Show Notes as well.

Heather Bayer
So today, we're tackling a topic that's gaining momentum, but it's often overlooked; it's called fractional leadership. We often think about, when we're thinking about fractional people within our companies, we tend to think more of the virtual assistants, the people that come in at the foundation level and cover administrative roles and perhaps reservationist-type roles. But did you know that, according to recent studies, nearly 60% of small to medium-sized businesses in the US are now using fractional executives to fill really key roles in their business. And the trend is on the rise, particularly in industries that require specialized expertise, but may not have the budget or the need for a full-time executive. Our industry is no exception. In fact, as this demand for this flexible leadership grows, more and more vacation rental businesses are turning to them. And these are experienced professionals, and they take on executive roles part-time.

Heather Bayer
If you're looking on LinkedIn, you might find titles such as Fractional CEO, Fractional Marketing Officer, Fractional Operational Officer, something like that. You can see the word fractional comes in that title. And they're taking on these roles part-time, and they're providing strategic guidance to companies that need this expertise, but without the full-time commitment. So to explore this, I'm thrilled to welcome today Alex Husner, and of course, you know Alex from Alex and Annie, and Michelle Marquis from the Marquis Effect. And if you go to VRMA or DARM, you will have probably come across Michelle. She has been around the industry for quite some time. They are both seasoned experts in this space. And today, they're going to share their insights on how fractional leadership is transforming businesses. We're going to talk about the benefits and the challenges, because there are challenges too, and what it actually means for the future of our industry. So without further ado, let's move on over to talk to Alex Husner and Michelle Marquis.

Heather Bayer
I am super delighted to have with me today two exalted professionals in this field, and that is Michelle Marquis of the Marquis Effect, and Alex Husner from Directly Alex, and of course, the co-host of the Alex and Annie Podcast. Welcome, both of you. It's just such an honor to have you both in this same little square here.

Alex Husner
The pleasure is all ours, and I feel the same about being on here with the two of you, so this is going to be fun.

Heather Bayer
Let's start with you, Michelle. Just give us a little bit of your background in this industry. I know that you've been around just a few years.

Michelle Marquis
I actually was a hotelier that started managing inventory that was not owned by the resort that I was at. But because I had a hotel background, I treated it like it was a hotel, even though I didn't own the inventory, which meant I was doing revenue management in distribution back when distribution algorithms meant the Expedia rep come into town and I have convos with him. I got more bookings when I did. So there was no such thing as an algorithm back then. And then I moved on to the technology side with a company called Navis, and worked for Navis for a real long time. And then from there, I've been with several technology companies. And now I am a Fractional Revenue Officer, Strategist, Executive for both property management companies and suppliers.

Heather Bayer
That's terrific. Tell me about Shortcuts as well, because that's on your LinkedIn profile.

Alex Husner
So Shortcuts started as a... When you hire a fractional, what you're looking to do is to get something done quicker than you could on your own, by hiring somebody that maybe is growing into the company or growing into the position or already in your company. And so we looked at it as a shortcut. So Jeff Robertson, who's very, very good at marketing, both for the property management side and the supplier side, and I were like, really, that's why you hire someone and spend the money, is you want a shortcut. So we looked at it as a consortium of things. We would do webinars and stuff, we still do together, but we just decided to open that up to other fractional and other consultants. We're going to be doing something a little bigger than that so that property managers and suppliers have a place to go when they're looking to find an expert that is not somebody selling something.

Heather Bayer
Brilliant. Well, we're going to drill down a lot more into that as we go through the conversation. But Alex, you and I have talked more in the past week than I think we ever have before. Because I've been on the... I was interviewed for the Alex and Annie Podcast, and here you are. I think these are being published on the same day, so that's going to be fun to push these out together. Alex, just give us a bit of a background, because you've got such a brilliant background, too. Can you share that?

Alex Husner
Yeah, thank you. Absolutely. I live in the Myrtle Beach market. I've been here for about 16 years now. Thirteen of those I spent as chief marketing officer with Condo World here in North Myrtle Beach, actually. That was a business that we grew from 150 condos to over 500 and actually became an OTA for the entire region and had really leaned into building the Condo World brand on a house of our own land, as we like to say. We were able to do some really amazing things from the technology and marketing side that allowed that to happen. But did that for many years, was very involved with the chamber of commerce and tours and boards here in the area. 2022, I left Condo World, was ready to try something new and just have a little bit more of a challenge and went to Casago, which is a vacation rental franchise business and really was CMO, but was really in charge of business development for them for the East Coast, and got to travel the East Coast and beyond and just really see firsthand what a lot of management companies were going through and the issues that they were facing.

Alex Husner
It was a wonderful experience for me, but I learned in that process that, one, what we were doing at Condo World was very different than what most companies are doing. But I saw a complete need for companies to be able to have better access to true marketing strategy that's beyond just diving into tactics. It really just inspired me to go out on my own, which I did earlier this year and start my own business. Now also in that fractional role as a Fractional Chief Marketing Officer, Chief Growth Officer for vacation rental companies. And now I actually do have some suppliers that I'm working for as well. So it's been a lot of fun. And of course, the podcast that I host with Annie Holcombe, Alex and Annie, has been a wonderful part of tying all these things and experiences together, and I'm in and I can't get out now. Vacation Rentals kind of get you trapped.

Heather Bayer
And you made an announcement today about a new product. Share that, too.

Alex Husner
Yeah, actually, about eight months ago, right when I was embarking in my new business, I had the opportunity to come in as a founder for a new platform called Happy Guest. Essentially, Happy Guest is a guest journey platform that is based on psychology, and there's a lot to it. But the way that the platform was designed, both esthetically and how it functions in the background, really supports building a guest journey that is anticipating questions ahead of somebody having to ask them, is providing the information at the right time, is helping managers reduce the amount of back and forth communication that they're doing with guests. There's upsell components to it, damage waivers, rental agreements, but all done in a very easy way for managers and for hosts. It's been exciting, and we've got a thousand properties on the platform. Now, we had 14,000 reservations over the last several months and are officially taking it to market now. It's been a lot of fun

Heather Bayer
Well, you kept that quiet.

Alex Husner
Yes, I know. It's been really hard. I've posted a couple of teasers, but we've kept it in the background of just wanting to be in stealth mode for a little bit, but time to announce now.

Heather Bayer
That was great to see, you're going to explore that Michelle?

Michelle Marquis
She's coming to the dark side.

Alex Husner
Yeah, exactly. That's right. I love all the suppliers. I think vendors in general just get a bad rap, but it's like, I was just talking to somebody about this yesterday. I mean, all the education and the bringing of information to our industry, a lot of it comes from the vendors. I mean, they're on top of the technology and where things are going, and they have to be part of these conversations. Suppliers are your friends. It's not a bad thing.

Heather Bayer
Yeah, because I did that, came to the dark side two years ago when I sold my property management company. And now, when I want to fill in the VRMA stuff and 'Vendor', Oh, right, that's what I am now.

Heather Bayer
Anyway, we're going to talk about, you both mentioned, fractional leadership. So we're going to explore that, because up until relatively recently, my version of fractional employment was virtual assistance. That was it. You want somebody that comes in and will just do a couple of little jobs for you. I don't think they call it fractional employment, but it's a similar model. You're employing somebody for a specific purpose for a shorter period of time or part-time. When I went and explored it, the whole fractional leadership, fractional executives, and I thought, Wow, what a great area this is, because so many small and medium-sized companies have probably got the real need for leadership and executives in their company, but they can't afford it. It's just way beyond their budget to hire somebody full-time and I looked up the average cost of an executive, to hire somebody full-time, and it's quite high, way beyond the means of many smaller companies.

Heather Bayer
But let's kick off. Alex, can you explain from your what fractional leadership actually means and how you see it from your perspective.

Alex Husner
Yeah. So in most cases, as it relates to our industry, I think fractional leadership typically comes down to either a Fractional CMO, a Fractional CFO, a Fractional CGO, a Fractional CTO. I mean, it's really like your C-level team that you're able to bring in in a strategic way. The benefit of it is, I mean, one, the cost savings, but two, you're getting access to that executive level experience leadership that when you really have strategic initiatives that you're trying to push, these are the people that you need to get the ball rolling. In my case, I'm new in this, but all the clients that I started working with, I'm working with them on a long-term basis. So it's not necessarily for me at this point as much like contract or project-specific. It's more been truly fractional that they want me part of the team, but they know they can't have me all the time, but they have me as a sounding board and very much involved in a lot of parts of the business. But I think it just allows companies to be able to bring in people that their team can also learn from, and hopefully you can help their team develop, either by bringing more people onto the team or just really streamlining how things are done and just having that access to additional knowledge outside of where their walls are of wherever the business is.

Heather Bayer
I just found it really interesting. You said chief CGO, what's the G?

Alex Husner
Growth Officer. Yeah, an emerging title, I would say. And that's where I fall in. I oversee marketing, but my whole life has been overseeing marketing, but marketing from the lens of not just the tactics, but how are we going to grow this business? There's a lot of ways to grow a business. Sometimes it's not related to marketing at all. Sometimes it's more about profitability and figuring out what needs to be done differently or systems and processes that it kind of falls into that whole umbrella, which I love, because I don't like staying in just one lane. I like being able to see a lot of things.

Heather Bayer
What about the difference? You mentioned consultant. Michelle, what's the difference between a fractional leader and a consultant? Because can't people just go out and hire a consultant? They want something done, they get a consultant in to do it. What's the difference?

Michelle Marquis
When I think of a consultant, I think about short-term projects. They may or may not take your advice. You're sitting on the outside. Whereas someone that is a fractional, she gave a lot of the titles, but as a fractional, for me, there's a few different things. One is it's not necessarily cheaper, right? Because you could get somebody full-time with a title of Chief Revenue Officer, Chief Marketing Officer that has good experience, right? But you're going to get experience that is less than somebody that when you hire Alex or I. Our experience is a combination of time on Earth and the variety of experience that we both have. And so when I sit as a fractional, I sit in on the executive meetings. I ask cross functional questions. I help write the budget. I help evaluate the budget. I help the C-level with growth strategies, meeting with investors. Really, it is like you're an executive on that team. You're just not full-time. That's really the difference. So you're also invested, engaged. I had a year contract with Extenteam as a CRO, and it just ended. So I just had the... This is the first month in my... Almost my entire career where I have not paid attention to month end.

Heather Bayer
Oh, wow.

Alex Husner
My career, because right now, most of what I'm doing are projects. And so for me, that was like, wow. So when you hire a fractional, they care about your business. They care about the culture of your company. They care about even if things aren't going right in operations, a fractional person isn't going to go, yeah, that's not my job. Because an executive, yes, your function is on revenue, or it's on marketing, or it's on growth, But the truth is, you're an executive on the team just part-time.

Heather Bayer
How do you get across to potential companies that are looking to hire somebody fractionally that you are at that level? Because I think we had this discussion the other day. I think it was with you, Alex, that companies can think that they're taking on a chief marketing officer and they're going to come in and do all this stuff. They're going to sort out your social media campaigns, and they're going to sort out your content management. How do you get it across to them that this is not your role? You're there on a more strategic level.

Alex Husner
Yeah. I think for me, at least, it's varied by the client. In some cases, I'm really in the weeds. And in some cases, I'm very much where I prefer to be, which is more from the strategy seat. But I've tried to really... I don't mind rolling my sleeves up, but I know that long-term, that's not a good use of my time with clients to be having me handle some of those things. But ultimately, I think it's about setting the expectations up front. And I will say, too, the first client that I got, before I had even announced, but good friend of mine, Sarah Franson, who also, she's a Fractional Chief Revenue Officer. One of the clients that we share together is Host & Home at Hilton Head. She had connected me with them before I'd announced I was even going on on my own. And they had said to her, We're looking to hire a Fractional CMO. Do you know of anybody?

Alex Husner
I think people are starting to understand where that type of a role plays in, especially that they're a fairly new business. So it's like they have big expectations and the ability to get there, but they know that doesn't make sense full-time at this point. But I think just setting the expectations. And my process always starts with an audit of some sort, of whatever is the issues that they're bringing me in on. And so we have a pretty good game plan by the time that that is done, which is a very comprehensive process of this is where you're at, these are my suggestions, this is how I suggest you get there. And at that point, they can decide to do it on their own, or it does lend itself to have the ability to execute and set this up for you. So that's helped me, at least. And I think the clients have understanding what is going to happen when we start working together.

Heather Bayer
What about you, Michelle, from your side?

Michelle Marquis
So like an executive on any team, Alex said it perfectly, you prefer to be in the strategic seat where you're talking about, How are we going to get these things done? And talk a little bit more big picture. But very few companies in our industry are so big that they have an army of people that can deploy. That also means that sometimes you just need to get in the weeds and get things done. So a piece of what I've done is that some of the things that need to get done when I'm helping property managers specifically, I work a lot in the distribution and revenue side, so like optimizing leads. Paying me to go in and change the content or the photos or making sure they click makes no sense. It makes no sense. That's just too expensive. So I just explain it that way.

Michelle Marquis
But I do have a resource that I use more than one that will go do that optimization for a lot less money. So I tell them, we're going to have this done by this person, because it's not going to cost you as much as if I do it.

Michelle Marquis
In setting the expectations up front of what will get done. Another thing, another area that I help suppliers with is, I'm going to call it pipeline management, but really what it is, is how do you set up your sales system? And this is true with business development at property management companies, too. Sales systems, what is in your pipeline and what's moving from stage to stage, that sort of thing. Most companies don't have somebody that knows how to do that. So that's there. I'll go ahead and set up for them, even though it's more expensive for me to do it than somebody that knows a CRM. But in our industry, there's not a lot of people that can actually know how to do those things. The example of something that's a little more tactical, but that's what you got to do. It's just something adding to something that Alex was saying, and that is in today's economy and in the vacation rental and short-term lodging industry, we are not in a marathon. We're in a foot race. How quickly can we get things done? Because this is all about who's quickest to market and who grabs the market share first.

Michelle Marquis
So what we are is we're a shortcut. You can hire someone to do these things. And the way that they're going to get from A to B is they're going to go here and go, Oops, we're going to go over here. I made that mistake. It's going to take them longer to get to the same place that when you hire a fractional, we're just going to, Oh, no, we don't need to take that detour because this is why. Let's just go here. So you're going to get there quicker when you hire somebody that has actually made the mistakes. Because experience is, that's all it is, there's a bunch of mistakes that you then don't do again.

Heather Bayer
I was really interested when you talked about Host & Home, Alex, that they have not just one, not just two, but I think they have more fractionals on their team. How do you all integrate and integrate into their team as well?

Alex Husner
Yeah. In Host & Home's case, Sarah was the first one to come on board, and then I was second. Then we've got 2-3 other fractional type roles within the company. Fractional Business Development, and then Fractional Distribution Management, and then a little bit more underneath me, I don't know if I call them fractional, but they're contractors that we've hired are a lot of different marketing vendors and things. But everybody works all together there. I will say just in general for me, because I was in an office for 13 years, being remote is a little bit of a challenge, but the more and more you do it, you get used to it. But I think just making sure that everybody's on the same page. We have a weekly meeting where everybody is there, and it's actually it's an onboarding meeting, so it's not necessarily marketing or specific to revenue or these things, but we're all on that call. We all know that they're onboarding at pretty high velocity. We're understanding the pace of what's going on there, hearing what owners are saying in this process and what's in that pipeline. Then we have our own individual meetings and our own huddles and times that we get together. But just, I think, having that one ability for everybody to be in a shared, quote, unquote, room, And it really helps with that.

Heather Bayer
Yeah. It just intrigued me that if you've got all these people working fractionally, and you say you do get together, but what if something comes up and you have to speak to somebody and they're not engaged with your company at the moment. They're doing some fractional work for somebody else. It's a logistic challenge, isn't it?

Alex Husner
It is. And I'd be interested to get Michelle's take on this, too, because I've heard of different ways of doing this. But to this point, I have certain time blocks during the week, during certain days, where I know I'm going to be working on specific things for a client. But in a lot of cases, you are juggling a lot of things at the same time. So that happens all the time. If something pops up, I'll have to pause and go over to here. And it's not a big deal. But I've had some people say that they really block out weeks. So one week, they're working on this client, the next week, the other client. But I'm curious, Michelle, what you found to be the best strategy on that, too.

Michelle Marquis
Yeah, I do it like you do. And that is when I need... I have set meetings. As a fractional, you'll have one-to-ones. You'll have executive meetings, you'll have budget meetings, you'll have planning meetings, you'll have off-site strategies that get blocked. At one point, I think 50% of the time that I was working were one-to-one meetings with different people in the organization, right? But then, the things do come up. And so Slack, Google, Chat, Text, all become... And you have to multitask. Now, what I did, I would evaluate my time every couple of hours if they weren't booked meetings, and I actually kept track of everything in a 15 minutes increments, where I would put the time like a lawyer does. I'm also keeping track of how much time I'm spending with each client. Now, as a fractional, I say that they got more time than they paid for? Probably. Because if they sent me a text on a Saturday morning, unless I'm doing something that I don't want to interrupt, I'll respond to it, and that's not getting billed. You know what I mean? If the CEO emails me on a Saturday, he must need something.

Michelle Marquis
There's a little bit of gray area in how you work on things. And I think that's just the way it is with a fractional. If you have a good one. Yeah. I work with other professionals where they go, I don't respond. I'm from 8:00 to 11:00. And after that, you're going to have to wait till tomorrow morning. And that, to me, is not a fractional. That's not somebody who's invested in your business.

Alex Husner
Right. Yeah, I agree with that, too. And I think just my experience and past history of what culture was, and I mean this in the best of ways, but I'm always working on the business I'm working for. I just learned that with Condo World. It's like your brain doesn't shut off just because it's five o'clock. And so it doesn't bother me to email at night or text at night or over the weekend. But it does, I think, when you start a business like this, you get so much information and advice from people saying, Well, you have to make sure you do this. You have to make sure you do that. Unless something gets wildly out of control for hours, I'm not worried about the time tracking as much. I guess, In my case, these are more long-term engagements. I think with project-type work and shorter-term engagements, I think that can be important. But I'm still learning in all this, too. I'm only eight months into actually being in this role, but really enjoyed it so far.

Heather Bayer
Do you need particular traits, personality traits? We talked about multitasking and being able to invest yourself very deeply into a business, which is of its nature a shorter-term. You said you're in there for a longer-term, Alex, but it's still a fractional role. I think what I'm trying to get at is, do you need to be a particular type of person to be a fractional leader?

Alex Husner
I think you have to be flexible. I think you have to be somebody that can juggle multiple tasks at the same time. I don't think that I would ever want to be a fractional leader in multiple different industries. I think that could get probably more complicated. But all the clients that I work with, whether it's a supplier or a property manager, we're all talking about pretty similar things and initiatives. It's not like you're jumping from working for a car dealership, and then now you're working for a hospital, and you got to really reset your brain on that. It's pretty streamlined.

Heather Bayer
Yeah. Your thoughts, Michelle.

Michelle Marquis
Yeah. I don't know about personalities as much, or personality types, as much as if you have, let's just say you have three fractional roles, that's going to be pretty hard. That's going to be pretty hard because usually when you're doing a fractional, the way I've been doing it, is that you give them an hour's range. That means you only have so many hours. Let's just say they go 15 to 20 hours a week is what I want you to work. But all of a sudden, there's this big thing they want to get done, and they want to get it done in four days. Oh, and all these other things. Then you have to talk about expectations, and you have to say, Well, look, based on our budget and what we've agreed on time and focus, I'm not going to be able to get that done in 48 hours unless we change something else in the priorities that we've discussed and agreed are our priorities. So I don't think it's a personality trait as much as it is somebody who is a good executive. You know what I mean? And a good executive means that they have already done successfully, what it is you want them to do, in a previous role.

Michelle Marquis
So they don't have to think about, Oh, what do I need to do to do this? They know what they need to do. I have a repertoire, and I'm sure that Alex does too, of things that I've already done that I go, Okay, I did something similar. Let me pull that up and see how I can adjust this for this customer because it's a similar process.

Heather Bayer
Yeah, that's a great way of putting it. Let's flip it over now to the employer. At what point do they know? Do they ever know, they need somebody fractionally, or do you need to persuade them that it's should be a fractional role and they don't actually need you full-time?

Alex Husner
I think in my case, I have a couple that, or I have one that's specifically the host of him that wanted a fractional leader before he had met me The other ones that I work with, they knew me and wanted to work with me and knew that I could work with more than one client now. So it's like there wasn't any really convincing on that side. But I've been asked to come full-time quite a bit, but I'm really enjoying what I'm doing right now. I'm going to give that definitely enough time before I would make a decision to go full-time back with anybody. But I think when a company realizes they need this, is they're realizing that they want to do something different. They need strategic leadership. They need somebody that's going to bring a different perspective and experience to the table than what their team has. The vendor network, supplier network, is excellent. I think a lot of companies lean on suppliers for input on a lot of different things. But if they want somebody that's going to be subjective, coming in and looking at everything with them and getting more in the trenches of what the business is doing and how to improve it, then that's when a role makes sense, whether if it's a long-term or short-term initiative.

Michelle Marquis
I would add to that that, for example, in one of the projects that I had, they've initially wanted me full-time. And I'm like, look, the size of your business, how you're growing even now, you really shouldn't spend that amount on a full-time role. You really shouldn't. You got leaders in place that maybe aren't ready. So let's get the leaders ready. So I spent a year doing this for one company where this is what I think it's going to take. It's going to take three months for this, three months for this, three months for this, three months for this, and then I think the people in place will be ready to do this on their own, which is exactly what I did. And exactly the person that was there was just soaked up the coaching, wanted to know everything they could do to be the best possible director of sales that they possibly could. And by the time that I left, they were.

Alex Husner
Yeah, that's really cool.

Heather Bayer
Yeah.

Michelle Marquis
And then the other ones, Heather, just in general, I've never had to talk anybody into it like Alex. You know what I mean? You really and you get emails from people that say, Do you want more customers? It's like, Hang on, hang on. So a lot of times it is, Instead of full-time, let's talk about the major projects you want to get done. So I've been working with a technology company, a software company, at looking at their sales organization and the foundations of sales training. So like Alex said, I did an audit. I interviewed people, I sat on calls, I listened to calls, and then I prepared a training that I'm delivering. I'm on day three today, and it's a three hours a day for five days training, which is going to give them so much in this much investment, right? Rather than waiting on someone full-time to look at the whole thing.

Alex Husner
I think the cool thing with what you're doing, too, Michelle, it's like if it's a year long engagement, no matter how long it is, if they need something, they're still going to reach back out to you. It's not like once that's done, you can't ever work with them again. You're available to work with them in different capacities because you already are familiar with the business. It's like, so now they've got somebody that's a go-to for them.

Michelle Marquis
That's right.

Heather Bayer
Do these businesses start out saying, I want to hire you for a year or six months? Do they know at the outset how long they're going to need you for?

Alex Husner
I think with one of mine, I think the initial goal was, let's... Actually, I think I proposed.... I said, let's just do six months and we'll see where we're at at that point. But initially they were thinking, we want to hire somebody internally. We want to get everything up and running, and then the internal person can go with it. But I think in this process, it's like you build relationships with these people, and they want you to be around in some capacity. So it's like, well, we could hire somebody, but I think everything's working pretty good how it is. So let's just keep going with it. But I've got another technology supplier I work with that just signed a one year contract. So that's more what Michelle is talking about. So I think there's different ways and expectations that can be set from the onset, depending on what works for the business and for the fractional person.

Michelle Marquis
I've even had founders who are fairly early, and they think they want to hire me, or they think they want to use my network to get more sales. That's what they think they want to do. But as I talk to them, I'm like, really what they need is weekly conversations.

Alex Husner
Oh, totally. Yeah.

Michelle Marquis
I do that. I charge them a retainer, and I meet with them once a month for an hour. We talk about things. We keep a list of things that they will do between this meeting and the next meeting. Then we go back and talk about those things. And what's interesting, and what I found is that even that is too much for some founders, because they're small enough, they can't actually deploy a lot of the things that you're recommending they do. So it really is, Heather, all over the board. And part of Alex and I's job is to really understand what's the end thing you're trying to do and what's the best way to use me to get there.

Alex Husner
Yeah.

Heather Bayer
So how does somebody who's considering this, they're listening to this and they think, Oh, this is cool. I could get somebody really experienced on my side for six months to a year. What things do they need to think about before they start looking? Then the second question is, where do they find people?

Alex Husner
I'm going to take number two. I'll let Michelle do number one, because I think one of the interesting things that I've noticed, in the last year or two, there are a lot more people that have been in the industry as long as we have that are now going out on their own. I think it's becoming more of a trend. I think people are realizing, I don't necessarily have to work for a company, and I can use my experience and my network to not worry about not having work. I've built what I've built and I can do it on my own. But I think that's a really amazing opportunity for vacation home companies, suppliers, everybody, to be able to tap into that knowledge. But I think there's more of them out there. And honestly, I think there's going to be more people that also follow this same path after seeing the success of some of us that have been doing it for a while.

Heather Bayer
So how do they find you? Is it just- How do they find you? So, are they registered?

Alex Husner
Linkedin is the downtown of vacation rentals, I feel like, for all of us. But I would say reach out to suppliers that you work with and ask them if they know anybody, because the suppliers are typically a little bit more connected into the network side of our industry, and they see what people are posting. But it's not... And Michelle, I mean, your business, what you're doing now. I mean, you're connecting people in that way, aren't you?

Michelle Marquis
Yeah, I'm trying. The Shortcuts to Revenue, I've got, we'll call it a database of about 20 people. I want to keep it to individuals, not a technology company that solves a problem. So I'm trying to put together that list, but long-term, I'd love to have a website that's in categories where it's a listing. Maybe even customers can review them, things like that. In my career, what I try to do is I try to be a conduit to people and processes. How can we connect people with other people that will help them all be more successful? And so that is part of what I've done my entire career. So this Shortcuts thing just seems like the perfect avenue to do that.

Michelle Marquis
And then you said..... What was your point?

Heather Bayer
What was my first question? Yeah, what do they need when somebody is thinking about this? What should they be considering before they reach out?

Michelle Marquis
Probably the biggest thing is, are they open to change? Are they open to look at their business and not be defensive about how they've done something to date and be open to doing things differently? Because that is something that I have run into where they go, Yeah, no, we don't want to do that because... And one, because is fine. But after a while, you go, Okay, look, did you hire me to keep doing things the way that you've always done them? Because don't hire me for that. Promote somebody in terms that you can just tell what to do every day. You can go, Now go do this. But if you're looking for somebody to shake it up a little bit and ask the hard questions, that's when you bring in somebody that has experience that can look at ways you're doing things and give you ways to be successful quicker.

Heather Bayer
Yeah, I think that's a great point. That's asking the hard questions. And I can see that. I know from running my own business, if somebody had come in and... It was my baby. And somebody comes in and says, you've been doing that wrong for a long time. And I'm going to give you.... And it's like, No! Because, of course, at that point, you've got to admit that you haven't been doing as well as you could have been.

Michelle Marquis
But it's not wrong. It was the right thing for the time. But how did it grow? And companies go through inflexes of really hard growth. And I think it's like the first number is $1M. The next one is, I think between $15M and $20M, and the next one is $25M. And they go as you get bigger, too. But it is the hardest time in a company's life. But that first $5M is like, if you don't get the foundation right, and this is speaking to suppliers, right? If you don't get the foundation right, having the jumps of growth are going to be really, really, really difficult. So you have to be thinking things that are around scale that you go, What we're doing now is fine, that's work. And you go, yeah, but everybody's doing it differently. When you bring somebody in, how do you show them how to do that? That's just an example of, we've always done it that way. When there's three of you, there's now eight or twelve or fifty. The organization I'm working for right now has 30 salespeople. When there's 30 salespeople, you need to have some scalability.

Alex Husner
Yeah, a big pipeline coming through.

Heather Bayer
So we're going to wrap up in a few minutes, but I want to get from your experience the advice that you would give somebody who is, and we've covered a few of these, but the final piece of advice that you would give somebody that's out there thinking that they're ready to hire.

Alex Husner
Ready to hire? Okay. I thought you meant ready to become a fractional. If they're ready to hire, well, if they feel that they're ready to hire, they've already gone through thinking it through and they know that they have a need for it. But I think when you're talking to people, I'd make sure that, one, you're not looking at this person, even if they are short-term. I wouldn't look at them as a short-term person in terms of making sure that you really have a good connection with them, that they culturally will fit in your organization. I mean, you want this to be somebody that if you could hire them full-time, you'd do it in a second, because it's somebody that you really believe in their skills and their experience and their personality, and it's going to all match well. Because that can be a hard thing, too. The owner of the company hires a fractional to do something. But if that person doesn't really jive with the internal team and they're going to be putting their foot down on anything that they don't want to change, even if the owner says they want to change it, that can be really hard.

Alex Husner
I think for the owner, making sure that his team understands, or her team understands, the purpose of bringing in this fractional person and that they believe in you and they believe in making these changes that they're going to come up with. So just getting team alignment, I think, is probably the most important thing.

Heather Bayer
Yeah, that's a good one. What do you think, Michelle?

Michelle Marquis
I would say make sure you're very clear in your expectations and in your priorities. Those two things, because if you're not super clear on those things, you might not have the results you want. And Alex said team alignment. So if you bring somebody in as a consultant, they're an outsider. And so people may not want to share with them. I don't even mean that they would hide things. But sometimes when you come in as a consultant, you shine light in dark places. They want them to remain dark. So when an outsider comes in, it's pretty hard to get the team behind the person to see them as somebody that's there to help, not tattletale on what they're doing right or wrong. So team alignment peace, I would say. So expectation, priorities, and that everybody sees that this person is part of this team. So forthright in your information.

Heather Bayer
And finally, to what you thought I was saying last time, Alex, what would you say to somebody who's out there looking for a... Thinking that they want to get into this?

Alex Husner
I would say, don't overthink it. And I think Initially, I really... And there's so many different ways to do this kind of a business and how you charge for your services and things like that and how you do contracts and how you set things up that I really got just stressed out about figuring all those things out. And eventually, you do figure out what works, but you don't have to know everything to get started. And talking to people who have done this before, that really was helpful for me in the beginning. But you don't have to know everything to get started.

Alex Husner
The main thing is you know what you know because the experience that's led you to be able to do something like this. And focus on that and just focus on in conversations with potential clients, making sure that there's somebody that it goes both ways, that this is a company that you would really enjoy working with and that you would work for them full-time if you wanted to be a full-time employee. I mean, think of it from that lens. Could I spend every day with these people? You want to like the people that you're working with and build up that camaraderie to feel like you're part of the team. But, yeah, Just don't ever think it and look at the company with the same lens that they should be looking at you with.

Michelle Marquis
I would add, don't try to be all to everybody. Don't. And if you're stressed about making money and getting work, it'd be easy to do that. Oh, I can do that. I can do that. Get niche-focused. Be, Look, I am the best in the world at this. I know where I can add the best value. So when someone comes to me and says, I want to redo all of my branding, I don't do that. It's Jeff Robertson. Could I figure it out? Have I been through enough branding workshops that I could figure it out? Absolutely. Would the customer know? Probably not. But that's what I'm going to be the best at. That's not going to be what just flows for me. If somebody wants to rewrite their entire marketing strategy, I'm not going to do that. I'm going to tell you, unless it's a B-to-B strategy, on that, I would go to market for B-to-B. I would be all over it. That's one of my strong suits. But get your focus, get really good at it, and don't do things you don't do. As a matter of fact, you come across so much more of a consultant invaluable if you say, I can't help you with that, but you know who could?

Alex Husner
Yeah, exactly.

Michelle Marquis
And your world, like I said earlier, the LinkedIn network of value and being a catalyst will serve you long, for a long, long, long time. The other thing I would say to somebody who is thinking about doing this is, for me, at least, cannot believe I did not do this sooner.

Alex Husner
Yeah, you said that to me a few months ago. I remember that. And I agree, too. I totally agree.

Michelle Marquis
And literally, I went in a 24-hour period from poor me to to, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hang on, this is too much. And with enough consistent work that, frankly, I'm making more money than I've ever made and I'm working less. And I love it because I do this project, and I do this project. Right now, I have property managers and suppliers that I'm working for, and I love it. I'm having so much fun.

Alex Husner
Yeah. I would echo that. My husband said to me the other night, he was like, I just feel like you've been so happy these last few months. I haven't seen that in a while, and you do feel that way. I think having that variety of the different companies and people and projects you're working on, it is fun. It can be a lot to juggle and manage, but it is very fulfilling. The companies that will bring you on in this fractional role, they really want your knowledge, at least the person who hires you, for sure. They want to know what you know, and you end up feeling very valued in these relationships and the ones that I've been in so which has been really nice.

Michelle Marquis
Absolutely.

Heather Bayer
It's been such a pleasure talking to you both about this. I've learned so much about this whole area that a month ago, I really didn't have any real knowledge. I kept seeing it all on LinkedIn, fractional this and fractional that. I'm thinking, what is this? What is this thing? But it seems to be a real thing in this industry now, and more and more people are taking advantage of it. So thank you so much for sharing your knowledge, your insight, your expertise on this. I'm sure it's really useful to everybody out there. So if you want to get in touch with Alex or Michelle, I'll have their information, their LinkedIn profiles on the Show Notes so you can go take a look. So, yeah, once again, thank you so much for joining me, both of you. It's been lovely.

Michelle Marquis
Yeah, very fun.

Alex Husner
Yeah. Thank you so much. A great topic and something that you don't really talk a whole lot or isn't talked about a whole lot on podcast. I'm appreciative that you brought us in for it and just enjoyed the conversation with both of you.

Heather Bayer
That was great. What a great conversation. Just after we'd finished and Alex said, This is really good. This is something we haven't talked about on podcasts before. I always love this to actually get in and talk about something that's not been addressed. So I hope that was a lot of... Well, I know it was a lot of really good conversation, good knowledge, good sharing on the topic of fractional leadership.

Heather Bayer
So as I said, if you want to get in touch with Alex or Michelle, their information is in the Show Notes. Of course, you can just go to LinkedIn. And if you're not already following Michelle Marquis or Alex Husner, you can go find them there. And please take the time to reach out to them and ask any other questions.

Heather Bayer
So that's it for another week. As I said right at the beginning, our coaching program starts tomorrow. It's not too late if you want to get into this, if you want to hear from some more of the great people in this industry. Over the course of eight weeks, we'll be bringing seven, eight weeks, eight sessions, eight 90 minute sessions, each one with the support of an expert speaker.

Heather Bayer
And if you go to vacationrentalformula.com on the home page, you can click through from there to the coaching program. You'll see who's talking, when they're talking, and why you should really register right now. Make that decision, and I'll see you tomorrow. If you are listening on the day that this podcast was published. If you come in a couple of weeks later, it's not going to be too late to register because every single one of the sessions will be recorded. So if you do join later, the only thing you're going to miss is the opportunity to ask one to one questions on the live recording. Otherwise, you'd still be able to go to the community and ask your questions, even if you join in the second or the third week. So if you've got any questions at all about it, you can connect with me and I will share everything I know, which is a lot since I created it.

Heather Bayer
Anyhow, that's it for this week. Thank you so much to Alex Husner and Michelle Marquis, and I will see you again next week.

Heather Bayer
It's been a pleasure as ever being with you. If there's anything you'd like to comment on, then join the conversation on the Show Notes for the episode at vacationrentalformula.com, we'd love to hear from you, and I look forward to being with you again next week.

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