Mike Bayer
You're listening to the Vacation Rental Success Podcast. And before we get started, I want to ask if you need help to solve your biggest vacation rental business growth challenges. Are you suffering the burnout from managing guest expectations and complaints, struggling to maintain trust and communication with your property owners? Or maybe you're finding it hard to stand out in the competitive market or getting new properties for your inventory. With a team of special guests and led by your favorite Vacation Rental expert, Heather Bayer, we want to help transform you and your business in as little as eight weeks.

Mike Bayer
We're excited to announce that we are launching the Vacation Rental Management Growth Accelerator Coaching Program, starting the first week of September in 2024. Your time to grow your business is now, and you can trust us to coach you to success with confidence. Click on the link in the description of this episode or visit vacationrentalformula.com for more information.

Mike Bayer
Now, let's get started with this episode, where you will hear about the value of coaching. And here's your host, and coach, Heather Bayer.

Heather Bayer
In this episode, I'm delighted to welcome a special guest who has not only influenced the world of coaching and mentorship, but was also the person who set me on my journey when he taught me to podcast over 11 years ago. Cliff Ravenscraft is a renowned coach, mentor, and mastermind leader. And he's joining us today to explore the transformative power of coaching in business.

Heather Bayer
We're going to explore the differences between coaching and consulting, the unparalleled benefits of paid mastermind groups, and how a skilled coach can help uncover and address core issues to foster growth as both a leader and as a person. So whether you're a seasoned property manager or just starting out, this episode is packed with insights you don't want to miss. Let's get going.

Heather Bayer
This is the Vacation Rental Success Podcast, keeping you up-to-date with news, views, information, and resources on this rapidly changing short-term rental business. I'm your host, Heather Bayer, and with 25 years of experience in this industry, I'm making sure you know what's hot, what's not, what's new, and what will help make your business a success.

Heather Bayer
Well, hello and welcome to another episode of the Vacation Rental Success podcast. This is your host, Heather Bayer. And as ever, I'm super delighted to be back with you once again. And I'm particularly excited about this episode. So I started blogging about this business, about this wonderful vacation rental industry business back in 2005. And hard to believe that that's almost 20 years ago. I did it because I'd had such a tough time getting my business off the ground. And although I had people around me who had a lot of experience and ran great management companies, they weren't sharing what they did. So when I say people around me, it was other cottage rental management companies that were existing in the same area as I was operating in, and it was very difficult getting any information out of them. They didn't want to share their 'secrets'. So in those early days, I made a lot of mistakes, and I wanted to share those mistakes so others wouldn't mess up like I had done on that occasion. So hence starting the blogging. And it got a lot of traction. And I finally connected with people on the same journey, which was great because we had so much in common and it felt really good to have those peer discussions.

Heather Bayer
And then in 2007, I heard about podcasting, and because I love to jump on new things, I got super excited. This was going to be the best way of sharing those experiences. So I went out and bought an expensive mixer. I got something called a noise gate. I say something called a noise gate because I still don't understand what that was for. But apparently, I was meant to get one, and a microphone. But the problem is I am not technically skilled and never figured out how to use them, so they just gathered dust. Until a few years later, I came across a really cool show called Podcast Answer Man, and that was in 2012. And here at last was everything I needed to set up and create my own podcast. So I devoured every episode. I read every book I could get my hands on, and I thought I'd got it hacked. But there always seemed to be pieces missing. I got frustrated, and I still couldn't figure out a lot of it. And the host of the Podcast Answer Man, Cliff Ravenscraft, often talked about a course that he ran every few months, but it was quite a hefty investment at that time.

Heather Bayer
But it promised to teach everything step by step. And in January of 2013, I started on a path that took me places I could never have imagined when I enrolled in that course. Most of you know the story from there on. I've spoken on many stages, in San Diego, in New Orleans, Amsterdam, Barcelona, Orlando, Phoenix, just to name a few. A few years ago, I was awarded the Pioneer Award from VRM Intel, and last year, the VRMA Award of Excellence for Community Outreach, all because this podcast reached so many people.

Heather Bayer
So over the years, I've continued to listen to Cliff Ravenscraft, and I invested in a one-day workshop he hosted in Dallas, and I'm now a paid member of his Next Level Mastermind Group. I attend his Next Level coaching program and his sessions in entrepreneurship, and I'm blessed to have him as a coach and mentor. And today, he's joining me to talk about the power of coaching and  mastermind groups, because self-learning from peer groups is good, but the value of being coached can knock your business right out of the park. As you can tell, I'm excited about this. So without further ado, let's go on over to my interview with Cliff Ravenscraft.

Heather Bayer
So I am super excited to have with me today my mentor, Coach, Very special person to me, Cliff Ravenscraft. Thank you so much for joining me.

Cliff Ravenscraft
Well, Heather, it is an honor to be on your show. I believe this is not the first time, but maybe even the second time I have had this honor.

Heather Bayer
You were my guest on episode 50, and I believe this one.....

Cliff Ravenscraft
......And we're on what episode now?

Heather Bayer
571, I think this will be.

Cliff Ravenscraft
That is awesome. Congratulations, by the way, on well over 500 episodes. That's fantastic.

Heather Bayer
Well, thank you, because if it hadn't been for you, I wouldn't have got anywhere near that. I was just telling everybody in the introduction to this episode how this all started, how I'd listened to Podcast Answer Man for a year or more, and I kept hearing you talking about this course you were doing. And I thought, I can figure this all out myself. I can do this. I can listen to your podcast. I can read books and I can do it all by myself. I do not need to invest in a course. And it just wasn't coming together. So I did invest in the course. Was it four weeks or was it longer?

Cliff Ravenscraft
It was a four-week course, yeah.

Heather Bayer
It was four weeks. And I dove into that like I have never done before and actually completed it. And I think it's one of the very few online courses I've ever completed. And I always remember reaching out to you because I just couldn't figure out the tech challenges of where different wires went, because it was in the days before the RODECaster, which is a plug and play. Different wires went into different places. You were so patient and you wrote out this most beautiful diagram, which I still have. It's still on the wall in my office because that was really where it all started when I finally I found out how I used a mixer. So in fact, so much of it is over to you for steering me in the right direction, actually getting me to where I am today, which the podcast has created so much for me. And that's one reason I wanted to talk to you today, because I'm now a member of your Next Level Mastermind. I come to the Next Level Coaching programs. I come to your new entrepreneur program, because I see now the value in making those investments. And going back to all those years ago when I tried to do it myself and realizing that the information was all out there, but actually getting it all to fit together was a completely different thing.

Heather Bayer
So we're going to be talking about the difference between coaching and consulting and what people should look for and what a mastermind is and why I think people should pay for a mastermind. But before that, Cliff, for those of you who don't know you, can you share a bit about your journey and how you did that transition from teaching podcasting, which is what you were certainly doing for me back in 2013, to becoming what you're doing today, which is a coach, and it's a mentor, it's a mastermind leader.

Cliff Ravenscraft
Yeah. I'll keep this as brief as possible, but I will say this, that ever since I was a kid, I was an early adopter of technology. I took apart my first computer when I was eight years old and put it back together, taught myself how to do basic programming from a user's manual on a Commodore Vic 20. So ever since then, I was hooked on whatever the latest technology is. I've been that guy. So that's always been a passion of mine.

Cliff Ravenscraft
Another thing that's always been a passion of mine is being of service to others. There was a great deal, several decades of my life where I thought my ultimate destination was going to be that I'd be a full-time pastor one day. So that was a part of my journey. But there was another very real part of my journey. When I got married in 1996, I was invited to come work for my family's insurance company that my grandfather started in 1937. I said, I'll come work for you, set up all your computers, get you digitized and in the digital age, as long as you promise me, you'll never force me to get my insurance license. And If I ever have the opportunity to pastor a church one day, regardless of how much less money I would make than working in the family insurance agency, I'd have your blessing. And they gave me the blessing. I set up everything on their computers and got them out of manual rating on paper.

Cliff Ravenscraft
Within about three months, everything was all set up. And then I just sat there, and I was an overpaid file clerk and receptionist. It was like, This is ridiculous. And they said, Well, you're doing all this stuff behind the scenes. Why don't you go get your license and I'll pay you an extra bonus for every policy that's sold. And lo and behold, I got my auto, home, life, health, and business insurance. And 10 years later, I'm one of the most successful insurance agents in the United States. So I had long since given up the idea that I would pastor a church one day. And it's not because I was making so much money as an insurance agent, although I was. It's just that I realized that as an insurance agent with 16,000 or so clients in the greater Cincinnati area, I was talking to somebody who had just lost their daughter in a car accident, somebody whose home has just burned to the ground, tornado, floods.

Heather Bayer
Then there were situations where I talked to somebody whose husband just committed suicide. And thankfully, I had sold that person a life insurance policy a couple of years back, and they swore that they didn't need it. I recognized that, wow, my greatest service to the world was doing this work. What I feel called to do as a pastor, the church would never give me as much opportunity as I have here, and I'm well paid. So I say all of this, Heather, because I feel like it's an important backstory to know that I started podcasting as a hobby in 2005, right when podcasting first got started. And it was just a hobby. But my wife and I began podcasting talking about a show called Lost, was watched by millions of people around the world. And by our third episode, we had 27,000 subscribers. And this podcast had all sorts of topics like All The Best Cowboys Have Daddy Issues was the title of an episode, Tabula Rasa also, which is the ideal of starting over with a clean slate. There were financial topics, there were family faith topics, and we got to share how we and our stories resonate with what's being told as the characters.

Cliff Ravenscraft
And we're talking tens of thousands of people around the world began to email me consistently. Some of them began writing handwritten letters. Within probably six to seven months, I got my first handwritten letter from somebody who says, Because of something you and your wife talked about in a podcast episode, I chose not to commit suicide. I have another letter from somebody that says, Because of something that you and your wife talked about, my kids have a dad in their life again. I had left my wife several years ago, and I didn't recognize the way that I was perceiving the world and relationships. I'm working to try to reconcile with my wife. I don't know if that will happen, but at least my kids have me in their life again. They said, I have you to thank for that. I think they have themselves to thank for that. But still, I recognize it's like, wait a second. Here, I can reach 16,000 people in the Northern Kentucky area. But within a year, I'm reaching over 100,000 people around the world. I began to see and have a heavy sense in my heart that every minute I work as an insurance agent is a distraction from what I think is currently my greatest calling in the world.

Cliff Ravenscraft
And that's how I went from insurance agent into podcasting. Now, I know that's not your question originally, how did I go from podcasting into what I'm doing today? But it's an important backstory that doesn't make a lot of sense. Because the same question of how did I go from podcasting to doing coaching in mastermind groups today? And it really essentially comes down to the same thing. What I recognize is that It took me a while to figure out online business. I failed miserably at so many different things. I made only $11,000 net income my first year in business, which is a lot less than I was making as an insurance agent, I must say. I almost died in the hospital because of all the stress that I was under. I didn't know what I didn't know about emotional state management or emotional intelligence. Quite frankly, I had lived a lifetime as an employee, so there was so much that I didn't know, and I didn't know where to turn to for answers. So I turned to people who I knew in life. They say that your life is the direct reflection of the people you spend the most time with.

Cliff Ravenscraft
Well, the people I spent the most time with also had lived the lifetime of an employee. So I'm asking them questions about my business, and they have no clue. They're like, It sounds to me, Cliff, the best thing for you to do would go back to get your job at the family business. I don't know why you're at... Why aren't you going back? That's the advice I was getting there. So It was a difficult journey the first 12 to 18 months, to say the very least, and that's putting it mildly. But after I got out of the hospital, I began a personal and professional development journey. I began to surround myself with mentors of people who were role models, people who had already achieved in online business what I had hoped to achieve. I began to read and study lots of books, go to conferences, take courses, and really do a lot of self-work, self-reflection. And through that process and through that journey, and then eventually, in October of 2010, I launched my very first mastermind group, officially called a mastermind group, with a guy named Pat Flynn. And the two of us have been meeting every week since October 2010.

Cliff Ravenscraft
It's an incredible group, an incredible story of its own. But it was the combination of a mastermind group, having coaches and mentors and all of this study in personal and professional development that radically took things off. I mean, I became eventually the top of the top in my industry of podcasting. There were so many things that I achieved and was recognized around the world as the person to go to if you wanted to learn how to launch a podcast. And that was fascinating. And it was incredible for so many years. And you were a part of my Podcasting A to Z course, which I did [for] nearly a decade, I think over 800 students went through that course. That course alone generated nearly a million dollars in course sales and over a million dollars in equipment sales. I sold physical equipment. And so financially, it was incredibly profitable, incredibly rewarding for so long.

Cliff Ravenscraft
But eventually, I recognized that my entire life was set up making equipment diagrams for every individual part. Hey, Cliff, I know that you said to buy this equipment. I bought everything you had, except I went and bought this instead. Quick question, what cable do I need and where do I hook up the cables if I have this one? Which required every time I got... You didn't do this to me, by the way. You bought the equipment that I suggested. Thank you for that.

Cliff Ravenscraft
But every time I got one of those questions, I'd have to go find the PDF of the owner's manual of that particular device. I'd have to look in the manual to find out what the ports are. I'd have to go find the exact cables for them, and then I'd have to customize a diagram for them. Probably, Heather, by the time you took Podcasting A to Z, because you bought the equipment that I had recommended, that diagram that I gave you was either the same diagram that I'd given to 40 or 50 other students or only one little slight modification. But what I was recognizing is that probably four or five times a day, I was investing somewhere between 20 minutes to an hour and a half answering people's technical questions. Do you want to know what I wasn't doing? I wasn't creating content or answering emails that was entertaining. Well, it wasn't... I wasn't entertaining people anymore. I was educating, but I wasn't encouraging and inspiring people anymore.

Cliff Ravenscraft
What I recognize is that there were a majority of these people who were taking this course on how to launch a podcast. But when I asked them the very first question, the very first week, Tell me, how will you know that this is a success? What do you hope to achieve with this podcast? Why are you creating it? And the number of people Heather, who had no clue what they wanted. They just said, It just seemed like fun, or I'd like to have this to promote my business. Well, tell me about your business. What are your goals with your business? And I had gotten to the place where I knew quite a bit about the danger of not having clarity of vision about what you're going to create for your future, having clear goals. And I recognize these people didn't have clear goals for their business. They didn't have clear goals for their life. And I'm like, wow, I wish I could help you with these things. So ultimately, to answer your question, how did I go from being the go-to person in the industry of how to launch a podcast to being the mindset and business strategy coach that I am today?

Cliff Ravenscraft
And I will give you two anecdotal stories. One, Rick Lindberg. Rick Lindberg signed up for my Podcasting A to Z course for $2,000, went through the course, and successfully launched his podcast. Then, about three weeks after that, I get another payment of $2,000 in my processing thing. I emailed Rick and I said, Hey, Rick, I have no idea what's going on here. I want you to know an error has been made. I just noticed that your card was accidentally processed another $2,000. I promise you I'll get to the bottom of this. You will be fully refunded. He immediately replied back and he goes, Cliff, no, that's not a mistake. I want to take your next session of Podcasting A to Z. And I'm like, Why do you want to do that? It's a course about how to launch a podcast. He goes, I know that, but if on your sales page, You say that you would be my coach for four weeks. And you also state that I can ask you an unlimited number of questions during those four weeks. And during the first week, you encouraged us to find all of the answers to our technical questions in the course material, but to ask technical questions if we have them.

Heather Bayer
But you also encouraged personal development questions. And that's where I found most of my value was in that. Thank you for helping me launch the podcast, but if it's okay with you, I'd like to have you as my coach for four more weeks. Please, that payment was intentional. And then Rick, by the way, had since signed up for more. He ultimately was the first person when I actually went around to launching my first paid mastermind group called the Next Level Mastermind. He was the first member to sign up and was a part of the group for over six years.

Heather Bayer
So that's just one anecdotal story. And another one was my friend Michael Hyatt, who was a mentor of mine, who introduced me to so many people, hundreds of thousands of people who had become clients and people in my community that would have never heard of me if it weren't for Michael Hyatt. He was on my show one day, and he said this:

Michael Hyatt
Well, I've told you before, this is why I listen to your podcast. It's not because I need more technical information on podcasting. I just listen to you because I like the way that you think about life, how you approach the problems you're trying to solve, and just your voice. You could be talking about anything, and I'd be interested.

Cliff Ravenscraft
So Heather, those are two anecdotal stories that will tell you why eventually I began to see teaching people how to podcast as just as much a distraction from what I felt most called to do in this world as I did insurance. By the way, that is two incredibly lucrative, incredibly financially prosperous careers that I have dropped in pursuit of more alignment with who I feel most called to be in this world.

Heather Bayer
That is great. A couple of things that come to mind. I had no idea that... because I knew you were doing the Lost podcast, but I had no idea that you were getting that feedback from people saying that the stories that you and Stephanie were telling around the Lost podcast were making such a difference to them.

Cliff Ravenscraft
See this right here? Now, for anybody listening in audio, what I'm holding is a giant wooden inbox. And inside this, there are about 50 different handwritten letters. There's about 150 thank you cards and there's about 75 to 80 postcards from everywhere on this planet. And this is all that just came in from one mention of our PO Box in a single podcast episode.

Heather Bayer
So tell me, how many podcast episodes... I mean, you didn't just have the one show, Lost or Podcast Answer Man. How many shows have you produced and how many episodes have you done?

Cliff Ravenscraft
As of today, I have 55 podcast shows, and I have over 4,800 podcast episodes.

Heather Bayer
That is quite amazing. Yes, I've got a lot to do to catch up. I am launching more podcasts. So maybe I will catch up.

Cliff Ravenscraft
I know you are. I'm excited about that.

Heather Bayer
Okay, let's talk about coaching, because I know from my experience how valuable coaching is. And you, as a coach, are constantly speaking with business owners and helping them with their growth and their development. Can you give me some of the really powerful ways that coaching can impact somebody's growth in a business?

Cliff Ravenscraft
Sure. So one of the things to understand, especially when studying psychology and human behavior, we are all, every person on this planet, including me, are limited. We have a limited way of seeing the world. Our limitations are based upon what we personally have experienced in life, what we have adopted as beliefs and preferences and desires and goals, and what we think is possible, what we think is good, what we think is bad. And all of that is either things that was forced into us when we were kids, and it's like, this is the way the world is, and just live with it, and you got to be this way, whether it came from our parents, which they got it from their parents, who got it from their parents, who got it from their parents, whether it be our religious leaders, whether it be our peers in school, whatever. But in these early years of our lives, we adopted about 90% of the beliefs that still are the foundation of why we think and feel the way we think and feel today. We're completely unconscious of that. We didn't consciously choose those things. We just were exposed to it, and we took it on as computer programming code.

Cliff Ravenscraft
If anybody out there is familiar with computer programming code, our subconscious mind is a bunch of 'if this, then that' statements. If I experience this, it means this, go do this. That's what's going on underneath our human psychology. So the reality is that we have a certain way of seeing the world. We have a certain way of seeing what's possible for us. We have a certain way of thinking within the box of our experience. And so anytime you can go to somebody else who has the ability to not judge you for the way that you're currently perceiving or experiencing the world, somebody who can empathetically understand what it is that you're trying to accomplish, and then ask you, what is it that you want to do? Where do you want to go? What have you already tried? And then all of a sudden, just a different person outside of your bubble, outside of your limited way of seeing the world, they'll say, Hey, have you ever thought about this? What's this? Oh, well, I have a friend of mine who, when I was in college, launched this out of his dorm room, and today he does this, this, and this.

Cliff Ravenscraft
And one of the things that he did was this. And the person who had that limitation was like, Well I didn't think that that was something that a person could do? And I'm like, yeah, in fact, it's been done a lot. My roommate tells me all about it. He's got an entire community of people who followed him. In fact, I can put you in touch with that community if you'd like. Oh, that would be amazing. And so all of a sudden, this person who said, You know what? Here's the situation. I left my day job. I'm trying to make a living doing this business full-time. I've been out here for six months. I've not had any success. I figure I'm going to give myself another 90 days, or I'm going to have to go back and get my day job and just give up on this. And so they think they have two options. Make it within 90 days, which probably is very unlikely given their track record and the momentum that's been built, or give up their dream and go back to the day job when there's actually an infinite number of other options, literally an infinite number of other options.

Cliff Ravenscraft
But in their mind, there's only two, and it's the only two they've been rehearsing in our minds. In psychology, we say that our brain has three different functions. One is to distort the information that's coming in. Number two, to generalize the information that's coming in or to delete the information that's coming in. The reason why is because we've got so much information coming at us, our mind can only process so much. So our brain deletes, distorts, and generalizes away everything that doesn't fit with our - what we call model of the world. And so a coach can immediately bring somebody else that doesn't actually have your exact way of seeing things. And so there's this metaphor of you can't read the label from inside the medicine bottle. And that's really, I think, the value of coaching.

Heather Bayer
Yeah. You introduced me recently to... I've known Anthony Robbins for a long time, but you introduced me to a program of his called Creating Lasting Change. I'm beginning to go through that at the moment. That has really opened my eyes to this whole business that we all have our own view of the world, and we often think that everybody else has that same view of the world. The other thing that you just said about people giving up their day jobs, this is what happens in our industry a lot. Investors and entrepreneurs see our short-term rental or vacation rental industry as this massive moneymaker. So they will get into it in a small way, give up the day job, and then suddenly appreciate that it's not passive income. It's a really tough slog. It's a hard job. But then they do get that very 'either/or' viewpoint that either something's got to change radically or I go back to the day job when, as you say, there's just so many other choices that would be available to them for somebody to come along and say, Okay, let me widen your perspective on what is out there.

Heather Bayer
But I think it does take somebody who does not have your viewpoint to come along and give you that different perspective.

Cliff Ravenscraft
Absolutely. I think it's essential to find somebody who, from your perspective, is very much outside of the same bubble or box that you currently are in. Because the more you surround yourself with people who have your similar experiences, then you both are actually seeing the world through the same lens. And there's a lot of different ways to see this world.

Heather Bayer
So in our business, there's a lot of coaches There's a lot of consultants. And I have this question a lot from people. So what's the difference? What makes somebody a coach? What makes somebody a consultant? How do I choose between them?

Cliff Ravenscraft
Yeah. Well, I do a lot of coaching of coaches, as you know. So this question comes up for me quite a bit. I think that the term coach can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. For me, I know that there are some organizations out there that want to bring a little bit of credibility to the professional industry of coaching. There is an industry called IAF or something like that, IAC. Anyway, they're out there trying to say, Hey, coaching is its own unique thing. Coaching is not consulting, it's separate. Where they would say something like, Coaching primarily focuses on the development of self-discovery. It helps you unlock your potential, helps you start to create actionable plans that you can achieve your goals and help you break free from the limiting beliefs that you currently have.

Cliff Ravenscraft
But coaches will usually use tools like questioning or questions and giving you exercises for self reflection because they believe the answer is within you already. It's a process of personal and professional development, but from a place of reflection and awareness and raising maybe your level of consciousness in the world. So that's, in my mind, a very specific label put on coaching. And if you want to say that that's what coaching is, it's perfectly fine. I certainly use coaching as a tool in the work that I do. But coaching is not the only thing that I do.

Cliff Ravenscraft
So what is consulting? Consulting is more along the lines of when you have a problem, a very specific problem, and you are seeking a solution or advice from an expert who's already figured this out. In some ways, that's exactly what I was doing and is what you sought in Podcasting A to Z. It's like, listen, there's all these different things, but technically, I don't know where these cables go. And this is just too much There's too much conflicting information, and nobody knows exactly all of these YouTube videos that are available for free. None of them actually show me exactly how to do what it is, specifically I have in front of me. And so I came along as a person who understands what all of those ports mean on a mixer, and I was able to look at your situation and say, Okay, here's what you need. Go buy this, go buy this, go buy this. Very specific advice.

Cliff Ravenscraft
Then there was solutions to your issues. Here's where this cable goes, here's where this cable goes, here's where this cable goes. If you have any interest, I will even teach you why we're doing this and what's happening here. It's up to you whether or not you want to retain that information, but this is called a mix minus, and this is why we do it and why it's necessary. And so I played consultant there. But you'll notice that I just called it a group coaching program. So when I think of it, I don't necessarily... When I think of it, when somebody says, Cliff, what you do for a living, I might say that I am a business strategy and mindset coach. But when I say coach, I don't limit myself to the industry or the tool of Cliff's just going to get on here and ask you a bunch of questions and help you grow in your own understanding of who you are, what your values are. Although I definitely do that, and I lean very heavily into the field of mindset coaching. But I'm also a consultant who is an expert in many different fields, and I'm more than happy to give advice if I think that that will help you get what you want.

Cliff Ravenscraft
I also play the role of advisor. I play the role of mentor. I play the role of a teacher educator. There's a lot of different hats that I wear. And so when I hear somebody say, what's the difference between coaching and consulting? I would say from my own experience of coaching, coaching to me, I am not IAC certified, or whatever that organization is for coaching. I see coaching as somebody who is willing to come alongside somebody who wants to achieve something that they're currently struggling to achieve. From my perspective, I will use coaching, consulting, mentoring, advising, teaching, educating, all of that stuff to help you get what is necessary. So in some ways, there are some people who just want a consultant. Hey, I need you to come in and look at my systems and tell me where things are going wrong. Some people say, Listen, I don't want your advice on what to do. I just need to understand why do I keep falling in and self-sabotaging, and they only want a coach. My own experience is that I could play either role, but I find that almost everybody usually needs a little bit of blend of both.

Heather Bayer
So if somebody's out there looking, they just... Because I've been through this in the past. I need some help. I don't know what direction to go in, and I'm not sure about my relationships with my business partner. This was going on a number of years ago. How would they seek out the right person to give them the best form of help?

Cliff Ravenscraft
There are a couple of thoughts that come to my mind. One, I would, depending on what your faith perspective is, either begin to pray to whatever God that you may have or to the universe, that, hey, I'm in need of some assistance in making some very big decisions in my life. I would love some guidance here. If I could be introduced somehow, some way to the right coach. I believe in that so much that I genuinely believe that that's the first step you should take. All right?

Cliff Ravenscraft
Now, for those who could care less with that piece of advice, the second thing that comes to my mind is to ask around to some people who are like you. If, let's say, you're a business owner, I would ask some other business owners, Have you ever worked with a coach? And what was your experience? Just understand, though, I think my third piece of advice is going to help you filter what you might get from the referrals from people who have worked with coaches in the past. And that is, you've got to be on the lookout for people that you resonate with. And resonate is a very specific word.

Cliff Ravenscraft
So for example, if you have been listening to Heather for 500 episodes, chances are you're resonating with Heather. You would not listen to Heather for that many episodes. In fact, if you're listening to Heather and this is more than five episodes of her podcast you've listened to, or if you not only subscribe to the podcast here, but you're also on Heather's newsletter and you follow her on social media, these are all indications that you're resonating with Heather. Alternatively, maybe you're listening and then all of a sudden somebody like me comes along. I don't know any part of my story about the faith journey and the leaving money to go pursue what you feel most aligned to do. Maybe there was a little phrase that I spoke that speaks deeply to something inside of you, that's a resonance. And so it could be anyone. And just whatever you do, when you put out that call, whether it's to God, the universe, or whether you put out that call to your network of people and say, Do you have any recommendations for a coach? Whatever you do, listen to that inner voice, that inner feeling. Do I resonate with this person?

Cliff Ravenscraft
And one of the things that I would encourage you to do is if that person has content that they create, certainly start listening to, reading, consuming that person's content, see if it continues to speak to you. And if possible, see if you can't hire them for a one-off session and see what a single session feels like. Those are the things. Before you jump into a long term relationship, there should definitely be a sense of resonance. It's like, oh my gosh. It's almost as though there's an internal feeling like, I feel like this is the person I've been praying for kind of thing.

Heather Bayer
You say so much there that resonates with me. As you know, I would say I'm not a faith person, but I put stuff out to the universe. Things come along almost by coincidence. I grasp on to those because there is no such thing as this coincidence. I believe so much in synchronicity and something will come along. It could be somebody here or something you see in an email or on a LinkedIn post and you have that resonance. Love it. Thank you for that.

Heather Bayer
I want I'll just touch on mastermind groups as well, because there is a distinct difference between being in a coaching program and being in a mastermind group. And one thing I want to bring out of this conversation here is how participating in a paid mastermind group benefits somebody compared to free networking or support groups? I know the answer to this because I have been in a number of failed mastermind groups because it was all voluntary, and, hey, I can't come along this week. There was no skin in the game. And I think I'd love to hear your take on this as well.

Cliff Ravenscraft
Yeah, there are a couple of things about being in a paid mastermind group that I think are incredibly beneficial. You've already talked about the big one, and that is how much skin is in the game. And so therefore, the bigger the financial investment that that group requires, the more invested in the more skin that the other members in the group have. And it's just a part of human psychology. You are more invested in the things that cost you. And so you'll work harder to get a deeper return on an investment. One of the things that people who are drawn to a paid mastermind group who are investing at a pretty high level, those are people who are already pretty much sold on the idea that I understand life is about consistent, ongoing personal and professional development. And so I understand that there's always going to be new distinctions, new things that I can learn, new things that I can be exposed to. The other thing is that because these people are ongoing, never ceasing personal and professional growth people, they've already worked with a number of coaches, they've worked with a number of mentors.

Cliff Ravenscraft
They've probably been in other mastermind groups before. They've read countless books. They've invested in lots of courses, gone to lots of conferences. And so therefore, they've set lots of goals, achieved a ton, failed at even more, and they've learned from everything. And what I love about any mastermind group, but especially a paid mastermind group where there's such a high level of skin in the game, as you say, what I love about a mastermind group, especially when it's facilitated by somebody, and this is self-serving for me to say, but I'm one who gets paid to facilitate my paid mastermind group. But one of the things that is on the hook for me that, Hey, I'm responsible for creating an incredibly healthy environment. I'm responsible for making sure that I curate the psychographics of the people here, not just a bunch of demographics of, we all fit these similarities of what do or what we think, but more along the lines of our psychographics. How much are we a positive thinker? How much are we looking to go out of our way to go the extra mile, to be of service, to be kind and understanding and non-judgmental?

Cliff Ravenscraft
These are the things that as a facilitator, I take very seriously, because guess what? If I don't, I won't have members to pay for my group. So there's even that benefit. But the biggest thing in a mastermind group is I love the definition. A mastermind group is a small group of people where every single person in the group agrees to work in perfect harmony. That's a key phrase. In perfect harmony for the benefit and value of every other member in the group. And so the one thing that I love about a mastermind group is that in this group, every single week, you're there not just for yourself, but for your pouring into others because you know that when it's time for you to ask a question, when you might be in a hot seat, for example, everybody's going to be there to pour into you. And it's just an amazing amount of support that where else can you go to take that quality of people and gain access to the accumulation of all of that education, all of that experience, all of those areas of expertise, those skills, talents, abilities, those resources and their network, all in one place and at such a high level and high quality of people. That's the benefit of a paid mastermind group.

Heather Bayer
Beautifully put. It took me a long time to figure out that this was what I needed to take myself and my business to the next level. And it's only been a couple of weeks for me, but I'm already seeing the benefits. I've got a spring in my step. I come along now to three sessions of yours each week. There's the mastermind group, there's a coaching program, the entrepreneurial program. And I'm going to be there front and center because I've paid for this. And if I don't come along, then I'm wasting that investment. That's just me. It doesn't necessarily mean that everybody's being of the same mind. and I know certainly in our industry, it's a very giving and sharing industry. There are a gazillion Facebook groups where people can go and ask their questions, and a gazillion people will come along and give you lots of different answers.

Cliff Ravenscraft
Yeah. And there's definitely a place for those free groups and those networking groups. That's not to diminish them. But there is something unique about a mastermind group that you can't get in that experience. And it's not that mastermind groups are better than them. It's just they're two different things. And I think that people should have access to both.

Heather Bayer
Yes. Yeah, exactly. Cliff, it's been absolutely fantastic talking to you. I mean, I'm going to be talking to you in about two hours time, again. But before you go, could you just share where people can find you and any information that you'd like to share with my audience?

Cliff Ravenscraft
I would love to share a free... Well, first of all, I have a podcast called The Cliff Ravenscraft Show. You can find that in your favorite podcast directory. Just search for the name Cliff Ravenscraft. Don't be surprised if you find a handful of other shows there, but The Cliff Ravenscraft Show is my main one. But I do want to give away a free access to one of my most important messages, and it's called All Beliefs Have Consequences. This is the opening keynote address of my Free the Dream Conference that I used to do as an annual event. And what I do is, I teach people why it is that there is a difference, a gap, between what it is that you want to experience and what you're currently experiencing in life and/or business and/or relationships, or in any area of life. There's something that you want to experience. You've set it as a goal over and over again. You've maybe made a couple of weeks or a couple of months of progress toward it, but you always bounce back. And there's a reason, and it's because every belief that you have has a consequence.

Cliff Ravenscraft
All of your actions that you take in this world are going to lead to the results that you get. All right? And the only way you're going to get different results long term is you to long term take different actions. And you can't take different actions long-term unless you change your thinking and your emotional state long-term. Now, you can change your thinking and your emotional state short-term by use of your willpower. And as long as you stay focused on it. But boy, if you set another goal that requires your attention somewhere else, don't be surprised if you go back to taking the same actions and getting those same old results.

Cliff Ravenscraft
Now, the great news is, if you just learned what the beliefs were that were causing you to think and feel the way that you habitually think and feel about things, then you have a chance. So this is called All Beliefs Have Consequences, and it will teach you, number one, how to discover your unconscious beliefs, to bring your limiting beliefs to the surface, so that you can become aware of them. That's the first step. Step number two in this talk, I will teach you how to learn where those beliefs came from so that you understand they're not yours.

Cliff Ravenscraft
You didn't consciously choose them. They were adopted and they belonged to someone else, and you get to choose whether or not you want to keep them. Step three I will teach you how to disassociate or break up with that old belief, and I will teach you how to condition new alternative beliefs. And once you become aware of a limiting belief, you find its source, you disassociate and condition an alternative belief, you'll never go back to thinking and feeling about that subject ever again. And so therefore, your actions will be forever changed and your results will finally be changed forever.

Cliff Ravenscraft
This one hour will change your life. It's called All Beliefs Have Consequences. It's available for free at mindsetanswerman.com/free. And by the way, there's a big promise that if you go to mindsetanswerman.com/free, it says, Give me 60 minutes and this will change your life, or something like that. It's a very wild promise. I encourage you, by the way, if you get into it and you don't like it and doesn't resonate, just unsubscribe right away from my mailing list. But two hours after you sign up, you'll get an email that says, Did you get what was promised? In that email, there's currently an offer to get the full course of Free the Dream for free and all the details on how to do that is in there.

Heather Bayer
That's a great offer. And thank you for sharing it. Thank you for sharing it. We've got a very loyal audience here, and I'm sure they've really, really enjoyed this. Something that just came to mind while you were talking is that expression , If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.

Cliff Ravenscraft
I love that. Yeah. They say that what got you to where you are, won't get you to where you want to go next.

Heather Bayer
Yeah. There's some wonderful quotes around that. And there's a reason why there's so many because it's very, very true.

Cliff Ravenscraft
I developed one other modification of that. What got you to where you are will keep you where you are.

Heather Bayer
Yeah, exactly. I have to say, I have not watched All Beliefs Have Consequences, so I will be the first one to be heading that way.

Cliff Ravenscraft
I love it. Heather, thank you so much. It has been such an honor to be a guest, and to be a guest on your show twice is amazing. So thank you so much.

Heather Bayer
Thank you for joining me.

Heather Bayer
That was a really great conversation with my coach and mentor, Cliff Ravenscraft. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did. If you feel inspired by this and would like to know more about Cliff, you can check out his information in the Show Notes. And if you'd like me to be your coach and help you transform your business to a new level, visit vacationrentalformula.com or click on the link in the Show Notes to find out more about our Growth Accelerator Coaching Program. You can get on a call with me to talk about where you are now, where you want to be, and find out if this could be a right fit for you. I'm looking forward to hearing from you.

Heather Bayer
So that's it for another week. Really enjoyed this, and I can't wait to be with you again next time.

Heather Bayer
It's been a pleasure as ever being with you. If there's anything you'd like to comment on, then join the conversation on the Show Notes for the episode at vacationrentalformula.com. We'd love to hear from you, and I look forward to being with you again next week.

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